Civil Service Culture..Alf says..

[Yibble]

Bloody 'ell; is this 'Green shoots'? Alf may, it seems, have some potential after all. I'd come close to writing him off, but if he keeps this up he has the potential to be the first non-complete-embarrassment-of-a-CM since Sir Miles.

[Kopek]

Hang on there boy, this is only higher echelons who are going in public announcements, the underlying 'bullies' and compliancees will go in a much quieter way,

....and who would wish otherwise? Out friends and neighbours  being hung out to dry in the public forum? The higher echelon  have to accept their high pay role means they will be subject to public scrutiny but the foot soldiers? Maybe not so exposed ?

In other words, don't expect the public removal to continue???

[2112]

7 hours ago, Manx Bean said:

Now, if I was a betting man..

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/civil-services-cultural-issues-must-be-reformed-in-next-12-months/

Lots of reform needed, and it’s not just culturally. What makes me annoyed is the likes of the Chief Minister implying that reform will also require training. So we the taxpayers, will have to shell out £0000s on training and education for ‘cultural’ issues within a defective and operational wanting organisation. The FFS these people are supposed to the highly renumerated professional people, highly qualified to boot. For people high up in the upper eschelons of the civil service, I would expect to be degree educated, and also, like other professions, attend regular education courses, CPD, like lawyers and accountants to keep up to date.

Sadly a lot of the cultural issues stem from the fact that we have had a weak and effective government, a couldn’t care less attitude, and a case where ‘it’s the Isle of Man where you can’ get away with virtually everything as we are untouchable. The politicos have known this but won’t rock the boat, and it’s taken an employment tribunal to bring these practices into the public arena. 
 

Whilst we are dealing with ‘cultural’ reform, perhaps a civil service reform and headcount reform is required as well, to drastically reduced the bloated civil service, and target the resources where they are strategically required. 

[Andy Onchan]

6 hours ago, 2112 said:

Lots of reform needed, and it’s not just culturally. What makes me annoyed is the likes of the Chief Minister implying that reform will also require training. So we the taxpayers, will have to shell out £0000s on training and education for ‘cultural’ issues within a defective and operational wanting organisation. The FFS these people are supposed to the highly renumerated professional people, highly qualified to boot. For people high up in the upper eschelons of the civil service, I would expect to be degree educated, and also, like other professions, attend regular education courses, CPD, like lawyers and accountants to keep up to date.

Sadly a lot of the cultural issues stem from the fact that we have had a weak and effective government, a couldn’t care less attitude, and a case where ‘it’s the Isle of Man where you can’ get away with virtually everything as we are untouchable. The politicos have known this but won’t rock the boat, and it’s taken an employment tribunal to bring these practices into the public arena. 
 

Whilst we are dealing with ‘cultural’ reform, perhaps a civil service reform and headcount reform is required as well, to drastically reduced the bloated civil service, and target the resources where they are strategically required. 

In recent years the relationship between the Executive & the Elected has been way too cosy. And it doesn't help if the Elected's remuneration package is based on Executive pay scales. The Elected lost the moral high ground when they decided on salary equivalence.

[Newsdesk]

7 hours ago, 2112 said:

Sadly a lot of the cultural issues stem from the fact that we have had a weak and effective government, a couldn’t care less attitude, and a case where ‘it’s the Isle of Man where you can’ get away with virtually everything as we are untouchable. The politicos have known this but won’t rock the boat, and it’s taken an employment tribunal to bring these practices into the public arena. 

It’s all started to go culturally very wrong in the early 2000s. Before then government was still lazy but at least trying to work for the general benefit of the IOM. Then you got civil servants who were just working for their own benefit. They didn’t care about the IOM. They just cared about what they could milk out of the IOM for themselves and the IOM has lost a lot of ground to places like the Channel Islands because of that. Then that system got ringfenced and protected under Greenhow who seems to have averted his gaze from everything - including public officers openly engaged in fraudulent activities. The core system is institutionally corrupt and Cannan needs to deal with that and it looks like he’s done an ok start. He has full public backing too. Not one voter or taxpayer is going to give a shit if we see more of these bozo’s dumped on the street. He also now needs to give the PAC a brief to go openly looking for fraud and start dealing with that as well - it will find it too. I’m sorry but the incompetence argument doesn’t wash anymore - yes there are instances of gross incompetence on behalf of so public servants but equally there are instances of outright fraud perpetrated against the taxpayer. People even know who they are but they’ve become untouchable. 

[english zloty]

3 minutes ago, Newsdesk said:

but equally there are instances of outright fraud perpetrated against the taxpayer. People even know who they are but they’ve become untouchable. 

Surely there are a couple of alright MHKs?

[Newsdesk]

15 minutes ago, english zloty said:

Surely there are a couple of alright MHKs?

I don’t think the current crop of MHKs is as bent as previous governments have been. I also think there is a hardcore of MHKs in this government who are happy to see some sort of vendetta carried out against the higher echelons of the public sector. The real problem is that so much has been ringfenced from direct political scrutiny by the Chief Secretary and others that public servants have just carried on regardless and thought they’re bullet proof. 

[2112]

26 minutes ago, Newsdesk said:

I don’t think the current crop of MHKs is as bent as previous governments have been. I also think there is a hardcore of MHKs in this government who are happy to see some sort of vendetta carried out against the higher echelons of the public sector. The real problem is that so much has been ringfenced from direct political scrutiny by the Chief Secretary and others that public servants have just carried on regardless and thought they’re bullet proof. 

‘I don’t think the current crop of MHKs is as bent as previous governments have been’.
 

I’m not disputing your view, and to some extent your correct, what I would say, there is a difference in intellectual ability between some past MHKs and todays modern MHKs. Some were good at milking the system and getting what they wanted, but in the same breath, they were much better in their roles than many of todays modern MHK. I think many past MHKs intelligence abilities would knock spots off some of our current crop. 

[Zarley]

9 hours ago, Kopek said:

Hang on there boy, this is only higher echelons who are going in public announcements, the underlying 'bullies' and compliancees will go in a much quieter way,

....and who would wish otherwise? Out friends and neighbours  being hung out to dry in the public forum? The higher echelon  have to accept their high pay role means they will be subject to public scrutiny but the foot soldiers? Maybe not so exposed ?

In other words, don't expect the public removal to continue???

Perhaps you're right in saying the "foot soldiers" shouldn't be named, but I would hope that at least some information concerning "retirements", resignations and/or outright sackings should be publicly available; information such as in which departments, how many, and importantly, whether or not they'll be replaced. 

[SleepyJoe]

52 minutes ago, 2112 said:

‘I don’t think the current crop of MHKs is as bent as previous governments have been’.
 

I’m not disputing your view, and to some extent your correct, what I would say, there is a difference in intellectual ability between some past MHKs and todays modern MHKs. Some were good at milking the system and getting what they wanted, but in the same breath, they were much better in their roles than many of todays modern MHK. I think many past MHKs intelligence abilities would knock spots off some of our current crop. 

We've probably got the most highly educated Tynwald in the modern era, tho' one or two dinosaurs still remain

[Zarley]

9 minutes ago, SleepyJoe said:

We've probably got the most highly educated Tynwald in the modern era, tho' one or two dinosaurs still remain

Stuasaurus?

[HiVibes]

5 minutes ago, SleepyJoe said:

We've probably got the most highly educated Tynwald in the modern era, tho' one or two dinosaurs still remain

About 3 highly educated, Thomas, Heywood, Allinson then a few good business people / professionally qualified  than the usual rabble of shop owners, / taxi drivers and local hospital radio DJ's.

[2112]

1 hour ago, HiVibes said:

About 3 highly educated, Thomas, Heywood, Allinson then a few good business people / professionally qualified  than the usual rabble of shop owners, / taxi drivers and local hospital radio DJ's.

You have forgotten Moorehouse - teacher. Just because they seem highly educated, doesn’t mean to say they are any use as a politician, or at least have the abilities to solve the islands issues. 

[SleepyJoe]

Most have higher education in some form. Stu has a pilots licence which is difficult to achieve

[HiVibes]

26 minutes ago, SleepyJoe said:

Most have higher education in some form. Stu has a pilots licence which is difficult to achieve

Getting a taxi license or similar is not 'highly educated'