HeliX Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 1 minute ago, Newsdesk said: To be honest this thread is a wreck but what has being gay got to do with pronouns? Being gay is about acknowledging your sexual orientation. It’s got very little to do with pronouns or gender expression. Because a few decades ago it was in the same position. People refusing to acknowledge it was anything but a "mental illness". People refusing to believe people could be born that way. People refusing to treat each other with respect. In both instances it's fucking stupid. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsdesk Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 1 minute ago, HeliX said: Because a few decades ago it was in the same position. But being gay has nothing to do with any pronouns anyone might choose to use at work or anywhere else. You don’t need to address a gay person any differently in the work place to especially acknowledge their gay status. This whole thread is a load of overtly woke wank as it stands to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 Just now, Newsdesk said: But being gay has nothing to do with any pronouns anyone might choose to use at work or anywhere else. You don’t need to address a gay person any differently in the work place to especially acknowledge their gay status. This whole thread is a load of overtly woke wank as it stands to be honest. But being gay is similar to being trans, or indeed straight or cis. In that it's not chosen (quite the opposite, a lot of people who are gay or trans desperately wish they weren't). And people treat them inhumanely despite that. Stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsdesk Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 Just now, HeliX said: But being gay is similar to being trans, or indeed straight or cis. No it isn’t and a lot of the pronouns and trans debate I think discredits what gay people have fought so hard for in the last 40 years. How is being trans the same as being gay? It isn’t really is it? If you’re a trans women and you’re in a relationship with a man then your conforming to a heteronormative relationship model so you’re not in a same sex relationship (ie, gay). So it’s not the same at all. It’s your assigned gender and the way people treat you that’s the issue not your really your sexual preferences which you can’t change. I’d say now being trans is probably more socially acceptable then being gay ever was. As you’re perhaps being seen as conforming to societal norms more by changing your sex to match what society broadly expects when it comes to relationship profiles. This is where a lot of the Pride crowd really need to have a serious think on the trans issue as it really is not the same as what they have relentlessly fought for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopek Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 16 minutes ago, HeliX said: a lot of people who are gay or trans desperately wish they weren't). I think today these such people accept that they are what they are, they just want recognition of that? \unless you have evidence to the contrary??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 5 minutes ago, Newsdesk said: How is being trans the same as being gay? In exactly the context I said it was. They're both unchosen characteristics that you have to live with. They're both characteristics that people have spent significant time claiming were aberrant, mental illness, chosen, whatever. If you think being trains is more acceptable now than being gay ever was you should probably look into the statistics around trans bullying rates, trans sexual assault rates etc. Neither being gay nor being trans has been particularly fun for those people it has affected, but being trans right now is still pretty unpleasant, whereas being gay is closer to being accepted. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopek Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 For mayself, it is about just what is the acceptable way to address such people as is what they want? It's not a clear picture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 1 minute ago, Kopek said: I think today these such people accept that they are what they are, they just want recognition of that? \unless you have evidence to the contrary??? Limited sample size, obviously, but of the gay people I know, around half of them spent their teen years wishing they weren't. Similar for trans people now, albeit they're typically older (because I am older). And stats from surveys, stuff from reading books on the subject ("The Transgender Issue" by Shon Faye is very good). I think it's worth people watching/listening to this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsdesk Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 1 minute ago, HeliX said: In exactly the context I said it was. It isn’t though and as I’ve said the Pride movement probably needs to re-think the whole trans debate as it’s ruining about 40 years of what the Pride supporters have actually fought for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopek Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 3 minutes ago, HeliX said: but of the gay people I know, around half of them spent their teen years wishing they weren't. Similar for trans people now, ....but that was then, this is now!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 Just now, Kopek said: ....but that was then, this is now!!!! The trans ones are in the last couple of years. Which I think is close enough to call "now". As was Shon Faye's brilliant book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 3 minutes ago, Newsdesk said: It isn’t though and as I’ve said the Pride movement probably needs to re-think the whole trans debate as it’s ruining about 40 years of what the Pride supporters have actually fought for. How is people being trans ruining 40 years of what Pride supporters have fought for? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopek Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 The trans argument is different to old homosexual argument. Medically enabled trans is modern addition to the argument. I think that both situations have been accepted by the majority of people????? Haven't they??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsdesk Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 Just now, HeliX said: How is people being trans ruining 40 years of what Pride supporters have fought for? Because being gay and being trans are two completely separate things. One is about your sexual preferences and the other is about your gender presentation. To be blunt if you like sucking cock and you’re a man then you’re gay. If you like sucking cock as a trans woman then you're a woman who likes sucking cock which is heteronormative. The issue isn’t that you like sucking cock. It’s about acceptance by society which I actually think in most cases is easier as a trans person as in general socially accepts heteronormative situations more than they do gay ones. Which is why I think the trans debate is a real side swipe for the gay community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 4 minutes ago, Kopek said: The trans argument is different to old homosexual argument. Medically enabled trans is modern addition to the argument. I think that both situations have been accepted by the majority of people????? Haven't they??? I suppose that depends what you mean by majority, and what aspect of transgenderism you're referencing: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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