HeliX Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 3 minutes ago, Newsdesk said: Because being gay and being trans are two completely separate things. One is about your sexual preferences and the other is about your gender presentation. To be blunt if you like sucking cock and you’re a man then you’re gay. If you like sucking cock as a trans woman then you're a woman who likes sucking cock which is heteronormative. The issue isn’t that you like sucking cock. It’s about acceptance by society which I actually think in most cases is easier as a trans person as in general socially accepts heteronormative situations more than they do gay ones. Which is why I think the trans debate is a real side swipe for the gay community. I don't follow - though I am full of wine. I don't think the logic tracks that the trans debate is a side swipe for the gay community because you think that being trans is easier (???) than being gay. 32% of gay US pupils have faced bullying on school grounds. 83% of US trans youth have experienced bullying, 35% have experienced physical attacks. Obviously it's not a competition, and bullying or harassment against anyone is bad, but I'm not sure there are any statistics that back up your belief that being trans is more accepted by society than being homosexual. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsdesk Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 (edited) 30 minutes ago, HeliX said: I don't follow - though I am full of wine. I don't think the logic tracks that the trans debate is a side swipe for the gay community because you think that being trans is easier (???) than being gay. I assume that you accept that being gay is a matter of sexual preference which is entirely different to your gender identity? Despite the adoption of recent pronoun victim hood it’s clear that gay people have been persecuted for centuries for their sexual preferences. Whereas some trans people have been persecuted for their gender identity in the last 30 years. They’ve come along way a lot quicker. It probably took well over a century for gay actors or public figures to be openly accepted. You now have model agencies openly clamoring to sign trans models and advertising they they’re doing it. Because it’s perceived now as largely being the norm rather than being something ‘queer’ because we still live in a largely heteronormative society. I don’t get why more gay activists don’t see this. Nobody ever criminalized changing your gender. In fact in places like Iran and China they’d rather enforce someone having a sex-change if they like sucking cock than accept that they’re gay as they can’t separate sexual preference from gender identity. Edited July 2, 2022 by Newsdesk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 3 minutes ago, Newsdesk said: I assume that you accept that being gay is a matter of sexual preference which is entirely different to your gender identity? Despite the adoption of recent pronoun victim hood it’s clear that gay people have been persecuted for centuries for their sexual preferences. Whereas some trans people have been persecuted for their gender identity in the last 30 years. They’ve come along way a lot quicker. It probably took well over a century for gay actors or public figures to be openly accepted. You now have model agencies openly clamoring to sign trans models and advertising they they’re doing it. Because it’s perceived now as largely being the norm rather than being something ‘queer’ because we still live in a largely heteronormative society. I don’t get why more gay activists don’t see this. I don't particularly like the word preference because it implies choice. But yes, gender and sexuality are different. Trans people have been persecuted for considerably more than 30 years. There are trans people who are only just transitioning now who were alive not long after WW2 ended. The reason it's taken them this long is due to societal discrimination and insistence that it's not "real". Also I'm not sure the point you're making is a sensible one. Let's say for arguments sake that gay people have suffered longer than trans people, surely society becoming more tolerant is a good thing? Should trans people have to pay some sort of dues and suffer for longer? Very odd. I have no idea why you'd be framing that as a bad thing if it's something you genuinely believe, in spite of the evidence. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoops Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 7 hours ago, HeliX said: I don't particularly like the word preference because it implies choice. But yes, gender and sexuality are different. Trans people have been persecuted for considerably more than 30 years. There are trans people who are only just transitioning now who were alive not long after WW2 ended. The reason it's taken them this long is due to societal discrimination and insistence that it's not "real". Also I'm not sure the point you're making is a sensible one. Let's say for arguments sake that gay people have suffered longer than trans people, surely society becoming more tolerant is a good thing? Should trans people have to pay some sort of dues and suffer for longer? Very odd. I have no idea why you'd be framing that as a bad thing if it's something you genuinely believe, in spite of the evidence. To cut to the chase, some people have different sexual preferences. Between consenting adults, no-one should care. The trans issue is completely different. It's body dysphoria (Albeit that there are disorders in sexual development in 1in 5000 babies) turned into an ideology (And monetised by some, used to gain power by others), and this is increasingly being pushed on vulnerable children, and who can forget the confusion and need to rebel inherent in stages of childhood. This is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 22 hours ago, AOR said: Isle of Man Creamery are being woke and right-on down with the kids. They pulled their advertising from Stu Peters' Manx Radio show after his remark for which he was found to have done nothing wrong. I just see their product in a different way now. Yes, the cheese is nice, I can't deny, but I have got used to trying others and haven't touched IoM Creamery cheese since, and will only buy their milk if it is all that is left on the shelf. That's me being small-minded but it is treating like with like. They do seem to have set themselves up as our moral guardians, as well as being purveyors of dairy products. I wonder how those vegans in the local LGBT community feel about the donation that the Creamery will be making to Pride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
code99 Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 (edited) The LGBT community has been (and in many places globally still is) a persecuted minority in which many lives have been ruined by prejudice and bigotry. Even in the civilised West, in countries like ours, up until fairly recently, the legal system criminalised a lot of behaviours and through those processes legally prosecuted people. E.g., Alan Turing, the genius behind the codebreaking programme at Bletchley Park (which was a major contribution to the allies’ winning WW2) took his own life when he was outed as a gay man. The current BBC documentary “Aids: The Unheard Tapes” is also an acidulous reminder of cruel attitudes that some in society, often through ignorance and stigma, espoused against gay people. I will gladly purchase merchandise from businesses that are trying, albeit in a small way (“10p of each purchase donated to Isle of Pride” is not exactly king’s ransom), to put right these dreadful wrongs of the past. Isle of Pride is local LGBT peoples’ opportunity to exuberantly express their joy of being free and not being threatened, ‘because of who they are’. I will also use the ‘preferred pronoun (‘he’ or ‘she’) that someone wants to be greeted with. I personally do not mind a jot as long as this does not cause any damage or hurt anybody. Edited July 2, 2022 by code99 typo 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizo Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 (edited) I won’t be buying it not because of pride stuff but because their cheese is shit. Whatever happened to blm? Edited July 2, 2022 by Gizo 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passing Time Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 47 minutes ago, Gizo said: I won’t be buying it not because of pride stuff but because their cheese is shit. Whatever happened to blm? Give it time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsdesk Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 57 minutes ago, code99 said: The LGBT community has been (and in many places globally still is) a persecuted minority in which many lives have been ruined by prejudice and bigotry. I will also use the ‘preferred pronoun (‘he’ or ‘she’) that someone wants to be greeted with. I personally do not mind a jot as long as this does not cause any damage or hurt anybody. Yes but you’re conflating the gay and trans issues again when they are entirely different things. One is about sexual preference the other is about gender identity. The whole pronouns debate is nonsensical in that context and most people find it nonsensical for fairly valid reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 9 hours ago, Kopek said: The trans argument is different to old homosexual argument. Medically enabled trans is modern addition to the argument. I think that both situations have been accepted by the majority of people????? Haven't they??? I suggest that you and others arguing that the trans "issue" is a modern thing go and read about Michael Dillon and Roberta Cowell. As for pronouns on badges... those complaining need to stop reading the Daily Mail and grow up. It is not being forced on employees they have a choice. If you are offended by a person's preferred pronouns the you need to take a long hard look in the mirror. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 The Daily Mirror..? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 2 hours ago, Hoops said: To cut to the chase, some people have different sexual preferences. Between consenting adults, no-one should care. The trans issue is completely different. It's body dysphoria (Albeit that there are disorders in sexual development in 1in 5000 babies) turned into an ideology (And monetised by some, used to gain power by others), and this is increasingly being pushed on vulnerable children, and who can forget the confusion and need to rebel inherent in stages of childhood. This is wrong. Not all trans people have dysphoria. And it's not being "pushed" on vulnerable children. Quite the opposite, most trans children are not supported by their parents. Not sure what you mean by it being turned into an ideology, but I'll tell you what the important part is for me: trans children/teens/adults are overwhelmingly less likely to kill themselves if they are supported and able to transition. And I'd prefer it if they didn't kill themselves. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2112 Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 2 hours ago, Gizo said: I won’t be buying it not because of pride stuff but because their cheese is shit. Whatever happened to blm? Still there, though the BLM lobby have remained very quiet. The only IOM Creamery product I buy is semi skimmed milk, though I do buy Cravendale. Manx Creamery products aren’t good value and expensive, as well as their inability to adapt to modern dietary needs - low sugar, salt and fat, reduced fat cheeses etc. They do a spreadable butter using Manx milk (allegedly), which goes off island to be processed, therefore creating many food miles and environmental issues - I’m sure this will be approved by Nurse Clare and Daffy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOR Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 Isle of Man Creameries pipe their waste into Douglas Bay. But they don't shout too hard about that when pushing the moral high ground. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 2 hours ago, manxman1980 said: If you are offended by a person's preferred pronouns the you need to take a long hard look in the mirror. Well yes indeed. But equally if you are offended by being addressed by a non preferred pronoun in a totally innocent, understandable way and without any malice, you may be in need of a looking glass yourself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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