JK Rowling Manx Flag Controversy

[The Voice of Reason]

16 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

Many people have grown up over the last 20-30 years, enchanted by the magical world of Harry Potter, only for an author they loved so much to come out with the things she does.

To be honest I have never been enchanted by either the Harry Potter books or films. I did see one movie but didn’t enjoy it it then each to their own. Probably the wrong generation 

Why on earth though should you pay any more attention to her political or other pronouncements because she is a successful author?

Madness

[Chie]

To interject here. Long post incoming to clear up some myths and other bits.

1. Woke is simply being aware of the social, political and cultural issues faced by minority groups. This “wokeism” half you all believe in is nothing more than the weaponised version used by the right, promoted by the daily Mail and other media. Most people are woke by it’s actual definition in some way or another. I consider myself woke by that definition also.

2. To those bleating “cancel culture”. I’m a lefty and I can’t say i have actually seen anyone cancelled. Not really. People claim they are cancelled, shout about people trying to cancel them. But, all those people still have huge social media followings, speak at events, write and sell books and have very vocal opinions that reach a large audience. And quite honestly are about as far from cancelled as you can get.

3. Barely any of us on the left have any intention of removing anyones freedom of speech. That’s a small minority called the far left and a lot of us think they are bellends at the best of times for some of the crap they pull. The rest of us support freedom of speech, support the discussion of ideas and support an individuals right to an opinion. What we don’t believe however is that freedom of speech gives someone the right to go out of their way to insult, belittle or otherwise make a person feel anything less than what they are. That isn’t freedom of speech, that’s just being a cunt. And that’s the issue here. Half the people spouting their freedom of speech is being taken away are actually upset because they are no longer able to say things to minority groups that make fun of or cause offence to them.

4. JK Rowling. Most of what has been mentioned are relatively early tweets where she did still show some support. Since then, she has really gone to town on targeting trans people at every possible opportunity and now she has surrounded herself with her echo chamber of like minded morons it has only gotten worse, she associates with and promotes people who have stated in interview that trans people should be put to death, rounded up, put in special camps (uhhh….) and more. She’s a very toxic individual. However, she said something very revealing in a recent tweet. She linked trans women with her abusive ex husband hinting that there is somehow a link of blame that falls on trans women for how she was treated. It makes me wonder if that’s the real issue. She can’t outright hate men as that would cause all manner of issue in regards to her professional life so she hates on trans women who were born biologically male instead.

5. No. Trans people do not deny biology. Never have. Never will. That’s a “daily Mail told me so” claim. Trust me when I say they are more than aware of what biology is. They have to live with biology every single day. They do however accept (quite rightly) that biology is not black and white and is incredibly complex when you delve into the nitty gritty. The whole concept of man vs woman is not as clear cut as the gender critics would want you to believe. I am not writing another post on this here as it will go on for days. But, if you take everything into account that you should take into account. You could easily argue that every person alive is in some way intersex and that a large portion of the population deviate from what people believe is the standard model.

6. No, trans people are not trying to erase women. That has never been a thing. Not once have women been told they can’t identify with whatever they feel makes them female. Not once have they been told that they can’t be women. That again is a gender critic “daily Mail told me so” claim. Literally no one is doing this and would want to do this. This has come about because of the whole bathroom and changing room debacle which is utter nonsense. Yes, a handful of trans people have done a bad thing. But that doesn’t mean the whole is representative of the few. There is good and bad in every walk of society. If anyone thinks banning trans women from womens toilets is going to somehow save natal women then they should go to google, click on “News” and search “woman raped in toilet”. There’s a whole subsection of cis men that didn’t get that memo and raped women in toilets anyway and have been doing so for a very long time. And none of them had to pretend to be trans to do so. But it’s trans people that are the issue?. I find it interesting amidst the thousands and thousands of articles about cis men doing the raping that none of these people talk about that or gang together in national outrage. No, only when a trans person uses a toilet to pee.

Lastly. If you hadn’t guessed it, yes I’m trans and unlike the nonsense people believe I am actually more than open to sitting down and having a sensible discussion with anyone on this matter and explaining out things about being transgender that they might not understand and I am more than willing to listen to other peoples points of view. I might not agree with it but I will listen.

[Capt_Mainwaring]

4 hours ago, Chie said:

And that’s the issue here. Half the people spouting their freedom of speech is being taken away are actually upset because they are no longer able to say things to minority groups that make fun of or cause offence to them.

Hit the nail on the head here Chie. Great post too by the way, thank you.

[Roger Mexico]

12 hours ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

Trans people kill themselves at enormous rates, not least because they feel like they're alone in their experience.

Actually there isn't much evidence that trans people do kill themselves at enormous rates.  This letter from earlier this year:

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-022-02287-7

though in reality it's more a review article, is based on around 15,000 young people referred for treatment, found that the rate was higher than among equivalent age groups, but still not that high and the absolute numbers are so small (4 suicides in that group as opposed to an expected figure of around 0.7).  There may be other confounding factors such as a higher rate of Autism Spectrum Conditions among the referred group.

So higher but not enormously so and that surely is a good thing.

[HeliX]

20 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

Actually there isn't much evidence that trans people do kill themselves at enormous rates.  This letter from earlier this year:

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-022-02287-7

though in reality it's more a review article, is based on around 15,000 young people referred for treatment, found that the rate was higher than among equivalent age groups, but still not that high and the absolute numbers are so small (4 suicides in that group as opposed to an expected figure of around 0.7).  There may be other confounding factors such as a higher rate of Autism Spectrum Conditions among the referred group.

So higher but not enormously so and that surely is a good thing.

5.5x as many seems significant. Also the attempted suicide rate appears to be much higher in trans teens than the rest of their peers. Which is surely just about as significant as the success rate in terms of determining hardship.

EDIT: Not that I disagree with your response to the particular bit you quoted from AC, but I think both posts define the scope in a less than helpful way.

Edited July 7, 2022 by HeliX

[AcousticallyChallenged]

27 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

Actually there isn't much evidence that trans people do kill themselves at enormous rates.  This letter from earlier this year:

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-022-02287-7

though in reality it's more a review article, is based on around 15,000 young people referred for treatment, found that the rate was higher than among equivalent age groups, but still not that high and the absolute numbers are so small (4 suicides in that group as opposed to an expected figure of around 0.7).  There may be other confounding factors such as a higher rate of Autism Spectrum Conditions among the referred group.

So higher but not enormously so and that surely is a good thing.

30-50% of transgender people report as having attempted suicide at some point during their life. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5178031/

I’ve linked a survey paper which itself links the studies it cites. 

[Steady Eddie]

41 minutes ago, HeliX said:

but I think both posts define the scope in a less than helpful way.

You mean they don’t support what you’re arguing about 😂

[HeliX]

2 minutes ago, Steady Eddie said:

You mean they don’t support what you’re arguing about 😂

No, I mean people attempting suicide is a bad thing.

[Itsmeee]

21 hours ago, Hoops said:

In march/april 2018, of 139 known transgender people in prison, 63 were in custardy

I wouldn’t trifle with someone who’s been in custardy 

[Gladys]

1 hour ago, Itsmeee said:

I wouldn’t trifle with someone who’s been in custardy 

At least there weren't hundreds and thousands of them.

[Jarndyce]

1 hour ago, Itsmeee said:

I wouldn’t trifle with someone who’s been in custardy

A tart response…

[quilp]

Plenty of topping all the same... 

[The Voice of Reason]

1 minute ago, Jarndyce said:

A tart response…

I blame Ange

[Sheldon]

1 hour ago, Itsmeee said:

I wouldn’t trifle with someone who’s been in custardy 

[Two-lane]

52 minutes ago, Jarndyce said:

A tart response…

Google's response to a question:

"People also ask

What type of filling is typically used for a tart?"