Hoops Posted July 4, 2022 Share Posted July 4, 2022 2 minutes ago, HeliX said: Nobody has said she's not free to. People have said she shouldn't. That's not the same thing. it is when people try to cancel her, de-platform her or whatever other euphemism they may try to use. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted July 4, 2022 Share Posted July 4, 2022 1 minute ago, Hoops said: Well, as a man, I don't want to be described as a person who ejaculates, why should women be defined by their bodily functions to accommodate a group of people who, however much they may desire it, are not women. Men, women, transmen, transwomen, not so hard is it? I can fully see why jk rowling was offended by this new way of defining women. But she shouldn't tell the truth, because it may 'cause harm', or upset people, as we used to say. Some women are clearly upset as being referred to as menstruating persons, why shouldn't she speak out for them? Why are their rights seemingly secondary to those of the trans community? Your discomfort at a particular descriptor (though I'd suggest given the medical context, "people with prostates" is probably a better analogy) is less important the chances of dissuading transfolk from seeking medical attention, or trans acceptance. I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is. Approximately 0 cisgender people will give a single shit about being described as "people with prostates" for more than about 5minutes, but transfolk not seeking medical attention based on their biology and societal acceptance of their biology is a real issue that kills people. So for now, the lesser harm is done by using a phrasing that cis people mildly dislike. What's "the truth" about what JK Rowling said? Her description of woman misses out lots of women, and includes lots of trans men. What makes the alternative description, people who menstruate, not "the truth"? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted July 4, 2022 Share Posted July 4, 2022 5 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: I must disagree. If you have an “audience” of millions why should you be any more careful than if you have an “audience” of one or ten or whatever. Why should you be handicapped or prohibited from expressing your opinion on a particular matter ( say transgender) when your “audience” has grown from a completely unrelated matter ( writing children’s fiction). Certainly JK Rowling is, and should be free to express her opinion on any topic ( unless inciting violence or stuff like that) just as I am. For what it’s worth I am a man and as such have never menstruated and am unlikely to do so in the near future. The Uvalde shooter who killed 19 students and two teachers was directly influenced by the likes of Tucker Carlson parroting the "great replacement theory" to their audience of millions. Words matter. Being careful about the way you influence people when the audience is millions matters. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted July 4, 2022 Share Posted July 4, 2022 6 minutes ago, Hoops said: it is when people try to cancel her, de-platform her or whatever other euphemism they may try to use. Net worth of 820mil, 13.9million Twitter followers. She doesn't look very cancelled? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted July 4, 2022 Share Posted July 4, 2022 12 minutes ago, HeliX said: You're definitely trolling. Well you say that. But every post I make contradicting PK he replies that “this is more piss poor trolling” using it as an excuse not to engage with me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted July 4, 2022 Share Posted July 4, 2022 (edited) 15 minutes ago, HeliX said: The Uvalde shooter who killed 19 students and two teachers was directly influenced by the likes of Tucker Carlson parroting the "great replacement theory" to their audience of millions. Words matter. Being careful about the way you influence people when the audience is millions matters. As I said in my post of about 15 minutes ago inciting violence or the like is not acceptable. There are laws to deal with this whether you have a hundred followers or a thousand. But say the likes of Ed Sheeran should be free to express their opinion on any number of issues ( say the suitability of Boris Johnson to be Prime Minister). Why should he self censor because he is a popular figure? Assuming he is not advocating or organizing anything illegal? Edited July 4, 2022 by The Voice of Reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted July 4, 2022 Share Posted July 4, 2022 2 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: As I said in my post of about 15 minutes ago inciting violence or the like is not acceptable. There are laws to deal with this whether you have a hundred followers or a thousand. But say the likes of Ed Sheeran should be free to express their opinion on any number of issues ( say the suitability of Boris Johnson to be Prime Minister). Why should he self censor because he is a popular figure? Assuming he is not advocating or organizing anything illegal? ran It's a tricky and much blurrier line than that though - Carlson didn't directly incite violence. He just repeatedly insisted that white people were being replaced. As with most human interactions, it's complicated. I just wish people would err on the side of being kind. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted July 4, 2022 Share Posted July 4, 2022 1 minute ago, Roxanne said: The extreme divisiveness that exists across so many subjects - often 50/50 - make being kind very difficult. These are inflammotory subjects. I men, they shouldn't be, but they've been made to be so, with help in fanning the flames by people who are well known. At a very time when we need to be united we're following the US model of becoming further and further apart, with little attempt at understanding the opposing point of view. It's a dangerous path but I fear we've gone to far to solve this with kindness. Social media is a large part of the problem. From short character limits removing nuance to deliberately pushing stuff you'll disagree with into your feed because it keeps you on the site longer. Grim. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2112 Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 There was a piece on this topic this morning on the NPM, in particular Clare Barber getting involved, saying the ‘Isle of Man stands firmly with all marginalised communities, and celebrate our trans community’. From a personal perspective Clare Barber shouldn’t have put MHK after her name on the twitter account. She could have posted in a personal capacity. Sadly it’s dick waving, posturing and the endless boasting which brings the Isle of Man to the attention of others. Whilst it is to the Islands credit that they have set out to correct the many historical wrongs, some of those who post on twitter and get involved in twitter spats, are left wing agitators and have chips on their shoulders. Posting about the IOM May provoke a left winger to call the IOM, as regarding its other perceived faults - offshore tax haven etc. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2112 Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said: Manx Radio clearly desperate for news on our national day Not just the NPM, and Clare Barber should have kept out of Twitter arguments. Edited July 5, 2022 by 2112 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoops Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 43 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said: What did she mean by adding “and those with mental illness”? She didn't stand firm with one now homeless man, that's for sure. Despite what she said before coming minister. I have no time for her at all. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2112 Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 45 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said: What did she mean by adding “and those with mental illness”? Are those with mental illness specifically within the LGBTQIA+ community, or does Minister Barber care only for specific groups on the island, and the rest of the island, who may not define themselves as LGBTQIA+, can have second rate treatment? No doubt I’ll be criticised for these comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcousticallyChallenged Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 17 hours ago, The Phantom said: Exactly. I don't believe she is anti-trans in any way. She is anti the militant hysteria that seems to follow this whole thing unfortunately. Good for her too. Women's rights have been defined for millennia by men. Now they are gaining a level of parity and self determination, but these newfound rights and equalities are being sabotaged or unfairly utilized by men again, but this time they are wearing dresses and are calling themselves Susan. This really sums up JK Rowling's view that 'any trans person is a man in a frock'. That excludes ~50%, if not more, of trans people entirely. Trans men exist too. Let's turn the argument on it's head. Would you want someone with a beard, as strong as a man and looking like a man, having to use women's spaces, because they happen to have a vagina? A burly bloke is sure to cause some discontent in what is a 'woman's' space. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steady Eddie Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 16 minutes ago, 2112 said: Are those with mental illness specifically within the LGBTQIA+ community A lot of them probably are mentally unwell which is what she’s saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcousticallyChallenged Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 17 hours ago, offshoremanxman said: She didn’t actually say that at all. What she said was actually twisted by idiots. https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/jk-rowling-tweet-women-menstruate-people-transphobia-twitter-a9552866.html She also added: “I respect every trans person’s right to live any way that feels authentic and comfortable to them. I’d march with you if you were discriminated against on the basis of being trans. At the same time, my life has been shaped by being female. I do not believe it’s hateful to say so” JK Rowling liked this tweet, as a good example. She doubled down after that, praising Magdalen. When you're on a public platform, as a prominent figure, it's reasonable to expect scrutiny. Especially when your work had resonated with the LGBT community. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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