snowman Posted July 6, 2022 Share Posted July 6, 2022 Three pages, so many mistruths 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted July 6, 2022 Share Posted July 6, 2022 17 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said: Yes but the sub postmaster is a designated person. Who is paid the equivalent of a salary to be the sub postmaster. You haven’t got a clue what you’re talking about, several posters have told you the position, why don’t you go & ask the sub post master 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted July 6, 2022 Share Posted July 6, 2022 20 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said: Yes but the sub postmaster is a designated person. Who is paid the equivalent of a salary to be the sub postmaster. A sub postmaster can be an individual person or a recognised legal entity ( body corporate ) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopek Posted July 6, 2022 Share Posted July 6, 2022 Though you wouldn't want to be either if we used the Horizon Accounting program???? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted July 6, 2022 Share Posted July 6, 2022 2 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said: Exactly so in this case it’s H&B or some subsidiary company of H&B but there must be a person designated and paid to act as sub postmaster for the company. FFS, John has just explained. A company is a legal entity so can be the sub post master. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted July 6, 2022 Share Posted July 6, 2022 3 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said: He hasn’t explained as the sub post master is an individually paid personal position. Yes but the individually paid sub post master happens to be a company in this jnstance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted July 6, 2022 Share Posted July 6, 2022 8 minutes ago, Gladys said: FFS, John has just explained. A company is a legal entity so can be the sub post master. But a company as a legal entity cannot be the licensee of a public house. It has to be a personal licensee. Not sure if that is the case with post offices. Google could probably provide an answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted July 6, 2022 Share Posted July 6, 2022 Just now, The Voice of Reason said: But a company as a legal entity cannot be the licensee of a public house. It has to be a personal licensee. Not sure if that is the case with post offices. Google could probably provide an answer. Glad Seems you’ve answered the question in the time it took me to make my posting😀 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted July 6, 2022 Share Posted July 6, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said: It isn’t. You seem to be accepting JWs word for this. It isn’t there is a person or persons standing behind this. The sub postmaster role is a salaried personal contract. Best you give a link to the legislation that says that. I will search too. Edited July 6, 2022 by Gladys 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopek Posted July 6, 2022 Share Posted July 6, 2022 30 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said: I know that’s a fact. That’s likely why there is no easy link. Hey, this sounds like a conspiracy theory, I love 'em! Whats next? QAnon started this? Common, spill the beans!!!! Stu is Q??? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted July 6, 2022 Share Posted July 6, 2022 48 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said: I know that’s a fact. That’s likely why there is no easy link. The Post Office Act 1993 s4(2)(e) allows the PO to contract with any person to deliver the services as its agent or otherwise. Unless you can find something which requires a 'person' for these purposes to be an individual rather than a legal person, which is the usual interpretation and includes bodies corporate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted July 6, 2022 Share Posted July 6, 2022 16 minutes ago, Gladys said: The Post Office Act 1993 s4(2)(e) allows the PO to contract with any person to deliver the services as its agent or otherwise. Unless you can find something which requires a 'person' for these purposes to be an individual rather than a legal person, which is the usual interpretation and includes bodies corporate. Well I’m not so sure now Glad. “Person” in normal terms does not normally include a corporate body (Corporate veil or not withstanding) I’m that in all cases person includes a corporate body. As in a “person”( not corporate body) assaulted someone. I can’t help but feel and I am only guessing that you have spent much of you professional life, or similar as say a compliance officer, in maybe a CSP hence your obsession with the Nolan principles. I may be wrong on both counts. No offence intended 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted July 6, 2022 Share Posted July 6, 2022 11 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: Well I’m not so sure now Glad. “Person” in normal terms does not normally include a corporate body (Corporate veil or not withstanding) I’m that in all cases person includes a corporate body. As in a “person”( not corporate body) assaulted someone. I can’t help but feel and I am only guessing that you have spent much of you professional life, or similar as say a compliance officer, in maybe a CSP hence your obsession with the Nolan principles. I may be wrong on both counts. No offence intended 🙂 No, never in compliance and no offence taken. The thing is that companies have legal PERSONality, ie they can sue and be sued in their own right, they are recognised as a party in law. The general position is that when a statute says person it means a person recognised in law, so includes companies and other more arcane types of legal persons as well as excluding people we would think of as persons but who do not have legal personality, most normally for their own protection. I haven't done a huge amount of research on this PO specific question and it may be that at some point the PO required a company, if contracted by them to provide an element of their services, to nominate an individual. But a designated person is really a thing of licensing regulations. This is straightforward contract. That is the case for most non-criminal law. Not so for criminal law when you start from the basic premise that you can't lock up a concept, which is what a company is. You can fine them or pierce the corporate veil and that is where the concept of corporate manslaughter is an interesting area. But a company can only act through its agents, its directors, so you can understand where the law is going on physical crimes such as assault. The real point is that OSM said it was 'fact' but he would not be able to evidence that which always makes a 'fact' a little tenuous. There may be much more that I haven't taken into account, but the general proposition that the PO cannot contract with a company is wrong, I think. They may place conditions when contracting with a company, and that too will be a 'fact'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopek Posted July 6, 2022 Share Posted July 6, 2022 It could well be that the contract in this case required H n B to provide a suitable sub postie at their own expense? I would hope that that was the case! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted July 6, 2022 Share Posted July 6, 2022 5 minutes ago, Kopek said: It could well be that the contract in this case required H n B to provide a suitable sub postie at their own expense? I would hope that that was the case! I think the point is that H&B is the sub postie. Why would you need an individual? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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