Villa’s revised T&Cs could kill live music

[The Voice of Reason]

3 hours ago, Manx Bean said:

I don't think you understand what actually happened here. Triskel Promotions (run by a very experienced local promoter and decent man) had hired the Villa effectively as a Private Hire (known as "dry hire" in the trade), then booked the act to perform, then sold tickets. So, Triskel are taking on ALL of the financial risk, not the Government. You'll probably find that over half of the shows on at the Villa these days are put on in a similar way by promoters.

In fact, probably 80% of shows in the UK are booked and run this way in most of Britain and Europe. It's a model that has been in place for decades and works - but seemingly the Government bean counters have identified it as a risk, so decided to change the rules and wreck the industry. Well done. Dickheads.

So, here's the rub for promoters with the rule change - they rely on the ticket revenue to cover expenses (as you'd expect), BUT the way the industry works is although you front up deposits for the venue and performer, the balance doesn't get paid until after the gig, once all the ticket revenue is in. If then, there is an overall loss, the promoter has to stump up - and all decent promoters do, as they know some gigs will be do better or worse than others. 

ISLE OF MAN. WHERE YOU CAN'T.

 

 

Thanks for your explanation. 
 

As an aside, wouldn’t the Government be in  breach of contract? ( obviously subject to the terms of that contract) . I would hope that it doesn’t include a provision that one party can just cancel at short notice without having to reimburse the other party for costs already incurred.Presumably  Triskel will have incurred certain costs (travel etc).

And no doubt there is a contract between Triskel and the bands management which will be impacted by this cancellation..

[wrighty]

1 hour ago, Roger Mexico said:

I suspect part of the problem here is that the various waves of Covid have left people less willing to book in advance.  Events will still go ahead, but audiences may prefer to pay at the door or only a few days in advance in case they go down with the latest variant.  They'll only pay in advance for something they know will sell out.  So even if gigs would eventually fill, promoters and venues won't know till last minute.

Obviously in these difficult circumstances, you'd think venues would do their best to be helpful.  After all if a concert is cancelled they don't get anything and overheads still have to be paid.  But apparently not.

There's also cashflow. This gig was due to be on the 31st.  I imagine there will have been quite a few waiting until after July payday before shelling out for tickets, thinking it probably wouldn't sell out early.  I've noticed the 'payday effect' even playing small gigs round the island - far more paying punters for gigs just after payday compared with those just before.

[Andy Onchan]

5 hours ago, Manx Bean said:

I don't think you understand what actually happened here. Triskel Promotions (run by a very experienced local promoter and decent man) had hired the Villa effectively as a Private Hire (known as "dry hire" in the trade), then booked the act to perform, then sold tickets. So, Triskel are taking on ALL of the financial risk, not the Government. You'll probably find that over half of the shows on at the Villa these days are put on in a similar way by promoters.

In fact, probably 80% of shows in the UK are booked and run this way in most of Britain and Europe. It's a model that has been in place for decades and works - but seemingly the Government bean counters have identified it as a risk, so decided to change the rules and wreck the industry. Well done. Dickheads.

So, here's the rub for promoters with the rule change - they rely on the ticket revenue to cover expenses (as you'd expect), BUT the way the industry works is although you front up deposits for the venue and performer, the balance doesn't get paid until after the gig, once all the ticket revenue is in. If then, there is an overall loss, the promoter has to stump up - and all decent promoters do, as they know some gigs will be do better or worse than others. 

ISLE OF MAN. WHERE YOU CAN'T.

 

 

Has there been a change of rule? If so, why?? There's more to this than meets the eye.

[The Voice of Reason]

This Manx phenomenon of booking things at the last minute was one of the differences that became clear to me when I arrived on these shores ( along with the realisation that if someone says they would meet you in the pub at half past seven they actually mean quarter past eight)

Part of the “traa dy liooar” culture I guess

[0bserver]

One thing I don't understand is how they keep managing to put on the absolute shite like 'Lollypops & Moptops'. 

 

At least the lightning seeds were decent.

[Andy Onchan]

2 minutes ago, Roxanne said:

Yes. There’s been a change of rule. 

What is it?

[Kopek]

....... but when the MUA refused to supply Manx Gas because they hadn't paid their bills, it was MG we castigated!

Whatever rules have been changed there may well be a good reason and it's probably not aimed specifically at Triskel?

[Max Power]

I believe it's £4-5k to hire the Villa? For that they do all the ticketing, promotion, security etc. The Villa has costs to recover in the event of cancellation. Perhaps these unrecoverable costs could be the deposit?

Having said that, running a business where you can't afford £5k outlay is running things a bit thin?  

[Andy Onchan]

17 minutes ago, Roxanne said:

100% deposit up front before making the booking. It used to be paid in stages. 

Nope.

[Declan]

7 minutes ago, Max Power said:

I believe it's £4-5k to hire the Villa? For that they do all the ticketing, promotion, security etc. The Villa has costs to recover in the event of cancellation. Perhaps these unrecoverable costs could be the deposit?

Having said that, running a business where you can't afford £5k outlay is running things a bit thin?  

It's not really his business is it? He just likes to put bands on. And venue hire won't be his only up front cost.

You do wonder how venues accross handle this, as many promotors are one man bands or the artist themselves. 

Also there's probably less risk renting the space to the promotor than there is if the Villa is the promotor.

[Max Power]

3 minutes ago, Declan said:

It's not really his business is it? He just likes to put bands on. And venue hire won't be his only up front cost.

You do wonder how venues accross handle this, as many promotors are one man bands or the artist themselves. 

Also there's probably less risk renting the space to the promotor than there is if the Villa is the promotor.

Yes, it would be good to know how other venues handle promoters. As I say, a non refundable deposit to cover the reasonable costs of the venue in ticketing and promotion wouldn't be out of order.  

[The Voice of Reason]

33 minutes ago, Roxanne said:

100% deposit up front before making the booking. It used to be paid in stages. 

Who has many of those kicking about? 
 

Much better off for everyone to use money

[Roger Mexico]

6 minutes ago, Max Power said:

Yes, it would be good to know how other venues handle promoters. As I say, a non refundable deposit to cover the reasonable costs of the venue in ticketing and promotion wouldn't be out of order.  

Except most promotion will take place anyway - at most it's just adding another item to something that will take place anyway.  Specific promotions will be paid for by the promoter.  And most venues tend to put admin charges on ticketing, so that should cover any costs from that.  Additional staff will be zero-hours so if the gig doesn't happen they're not used or paid.  Unless they have to turn away a more lucrative event for the slot (yeah, right), the up-front costs for the venue are pretty low anyway.

The main danger for them is a last-minute cancellation (again Covid may be making this more likely), but that's not a reason to ask this far in advance.

[Max Power]

18 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

The main danger for them is a last-minute cancellation (again Covid may be making this more likely), but that's not a reason to ask this far in advance.

I think you just hit the nail on the head, the Villa are acting to mitigate any risk presented by Covid, whilst sticking two fingers up to their customers, the promoters!

[Andy Onchan]

Here's the press release from Triskel: https://www.triskelpromo.com/

I think MR have been less than economical with their reporting and the PR could have been better phrased.