Alf Cannan's I Have A Dream

[HeliX]

2 hours ago, jackwhite said:

So who are the 15K students? You think people are going to want to come here and study as opposed to big cities in the UK or abroad?

Obviously our local kids in an ideal world but even then I would imagine the attraction of the UK would be much greater. Albeit we could offer a serious incentive for them. Still don't think we'd hit anywhere near 15K. 

IMO we would need to specialise in a small number of probably tech focussed courses. If we can get ranked in the top few in the UK for a limited number of courses that's probably a better strategy than having a slightly shit version of a large number of courses.

[HeliX]

1 hour ago, A fool and his money..... said:

I'm not talking about encouraging people to have children here. I'm talking about providing educational and other opportunities for people who are already here, rather than actively standing in their way. We have a shortage in X profession, why not provide free training for that profession for all ages, encourage existing residents into it.

Yes, I would fully support this, and this is somewhat related to what I mention above about Uni courses. A particularly sensible area of focus would be IT Security, massively growing industry, huge shortages everywhere, real potential for a fast-moving jurisdiction to become a quality hub.

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If we're short on tax take, why are we still giving tax breaks to millionaires? Why isn't the living wage law? It's government's own statistic describing what it costs to live here and already way out of date, yet we allow many employers, often rich multinational corporates, to pay their workers considerably less.

Agree entirely.

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At the moment Government waste a huge amount of the revenue it gains from the 85K residents we have. If we have 100K the waste will just be greater, we'll have an extra 15K residents who don't really want to live here (most probably employed by government) and inequality will probably be even greater.

Government have been throwing money at this idea for at least the last ten years and as the recent census shows, it simply doesn't work. Net inward migration of working people was what, about 600 for the decade or something? Divide the cost of locate.im, its staff, the national insurance holidays, the relocation expenses paid, all the other sweeteners, into 600 and you'll have an eye watering figure per new worker.

Contrast this with the number of new workers from other recent decades who moved here without incentive and in many cases despite stricter work permit legislation.

Any economic strategy, including Alf's proposed one, needs to include a review of Govt expenditure and civil service numbers. Otherwise as you say, any extra income will be wasted anyway.

[A fool and his money.....]

36 minutes ago, jackwhite said:

 

It is possible to have a dual strategy you know. We don't have to spend money enticing them, our current tax does that. 

Our current tax costs money. It isn't based on what it costs to provide public services, it's based on what it costs to entice people to live here.

I'm not at all convinced that growing the population is the panacea that government seem to think it is. What I'm entirely convinced of is that doing it the way government are attempting to do it at the moment will do nothing to address the real problems facing the residents of the island at present, nor do I believe it's intended to do so.

[jackwhite]

6 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said:

Our current tax costs money. It isn't based on what it costs to provide public services, it's based on what it costs to entice people to live here.

I'm not at all convinced that growing the population is the panacea that government seem to think it is. What I'm entirely convinced of is that doing it the way government are attempting to do it at the moment will do nothing to address the real problems facing the residents of the island at present, nor do I believe it's intended to do so.

OK so rather than being critical, how about some constructive criticism. 

So it's not the way forward. What is for you then?

[Andy Onchan]

56 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

Climate is the only plus. I was there a couple or six years ago, admittedly on holiday. I thought it was an absolute shithole of neglect and disinterest. Some nice new development around Valletta but lots of the rest looked like the Germans had just finished bombing it - still. Typical Med attitude of even greater traa - dy - liooar than we even have here. Our scenery knocks spots off it.

There's also the digital sector for EFL, worth billions worldwide:

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/english-language-learning-market-worth-54-92-billion-by-2027--growing-at-a-cagr-of-6-2-from-2020---exclusive-report-by-meticulous-research-301324924.html

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20210105005567/en/Global-English-Language-Learning-Market-to-2027-with-COVID-19-Impact-Insights-for-2020-2021---ResearchAndMarkets.com

https://www.transparencymarketresearch.com/english-language-learning-market.html

[A fool and his money.....]

2 minutes ago, jackwhite said:

OK so rather than being critical, how about some constructive criticism. 

So it's not the way forward. What is for you then?

Yes being positive is always preferable. Improve what we have here - why are people leaving? The island is a great place, it has loads going for it, far too much to mention, but it also has a few disincentives to living here that need sorting out before anything else.

I personally believe a fair and equitable society is what decent people want to live in. Giving Lewis Hamilton a £3M VAT rebate on his private jet may make us look worldly and important with our international aircraft registry, but what do we lose from it in non-economic terms?

Pay people what it costs to live here, tax everyone based on what it costs to provide excellent public services, prioritise these public services. 

The housing crisis is completely avoidable. Housing is a basic human need and should be treated as such. Allowing it to be used as an investment opportunity for rich individuals and companies is morally wrong.

Just be a better place. A vast majority of people anywhere in the world are decent, hardworking, good people. Make the island a place for them.

[jackwhite]

4 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said:

Yes being positive is always preferable. Improve what we have here - why are people leaving? The island is a great place, it has loads going for it, far too much to mention, but it also has a few disincentives to living here that need sorting out before anything else.

I personally believe a fair and equitable society is what decent people want to live in. Giving Lewis Hamilton a £3M VAT rebate on his private jet may make us look worldly and important with our international aircraft registry, but what do we lose from it in non-economic terms?

Pay people what it costs to live here, tax everyone based on what it costs to provide excellent public services, prioritise these public services. 

The housing crisis is completely avoidable. Housing is a basic human need and should be treated as such. Allowing it to be used as an investment opportunity for rich individuals and companies is morally wrong.

Just be a better place. A vast majority of people anywhere in the world are decent, hardworking, good people. Make the island a place for them.

Nothing wrong with the notion but it’s too blue sky thinking. Go down that road I think you lose most non Manx people. 
 

Maybe that’s where you’re going with it but if you think we have no facilities now then there would be significantly in this scenario. 

[A fool and his money.....]

1 minute ago, jackwhite said:

Nothing wrong with the notion but it’s too blue sky thinking. Go down that road I think you lose most non Manx people. 
 

Maybe that’s where you’re going with it but if you think we have no facilities now then there would be significantly in this scenario. 

You'd lose a few that were here for the wrong reasons but gain many who were here for the right ones - because they want to live here. 

Economic prosperity is easy to talk about but you need to look at who it benefits. The kind that benefits a few and often makes things harder for the many we can do without.

I don't think we have no facilities now, I think we have the kind of facilities you'd expect for a small island in the Irish Sea. I don't think increasing our facilities to placate people who'd rather live somewhere else but are here for the tax advantages should be a priority for government.

[jackwhite]

45 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said:

You'd lose a few that were here for the wrong reasons but gain many who were here for the right ones - because they want to live here. 

Economic prosperity is easy to talk about but you need to look at who it benefits. The kind that benefits a few and often makes things harder for the many we can do without.

I don't think we have no facilities now, I think we have the kind of facilities you'd expect for a small island in the Irish Sea. I don't think increasing our facilities to placate people who'd rather live somewhere else but are here for the tax advantages should be a priority for government.

I don't just mean government facilities. 

Investment, hospitality etc would all withdraw and it would be a little backwater. 

Are you Manx by any chance? It sounds like the kind of idealist plan of a Manx person. 

I don't disagree with your sentiment but I don't think you're thinking about this commercially. If you're happy to have the Isle of Man like a very rural rundown seaside town, that's the way to go.

[cissolt]

Anyone listening to today's blather?

 

Kate lord Brennan does not come across well at all, every topic was well over her head.  Rather than Training we need business savvy MHKs.

 

[HiVibes]

For a uni an 'earn while you learn' approach might be a winner like tax free earnings, paid work placements and cheap accommodation mitigating the need for a student loan, perhaps appealing to more disadvantaged but bright kids who can't afford to survive in the UK system unless they carry on living at home.

[SleepyJoe]

4 hours ago, HeliX said:

IMO we would need to specialise in a small number of probably tech focussed courses. If we can get ranked in the top few in the UK for a limited number of courses that's probably a better strategy than having a slightly shit version of a large number of courses.

Focus on e-Gaming with some work experience in IOM based providers guaranteed?

This is very much the future of entertainment

[SleepyJoe]

1 hour ago, cissolt said:

Anyone listening to today's blather?

 

Kate lord Brennan does not come across well at all, every topic was well over her head.  Rather than Training we need business savvy MHKs.

 

Given that Ms Lord-Brennan has probably penned much of the policy [with a good deal of CS input I dare say] how was it over her head?

[Dirty Buggane]

And you know this for a fact

[SleepyJoe]

Ms Lord-Brennan is the Minister for the Cabinet Office