HiVibes Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Just now, Jarndyce said: Ironically, an extremely right wing stance. Well not really I just want equality, why is it that the future generation of 0-16 have no right to vote? And don't go all mental capacity https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/blog/can-people-with-dementia-vote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 2 minutes ago, Jarndyce said: Ironically, an extremely right wing stance. Beat me to it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarndyce Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 1 minute ago, HiVibes said: 3 minutes ago, Jarndyce said: Ironically, an extremely right wing stance. Well not really I just want equality, why is it that the future generation of 0-16 have no right to vote? And don't go all mental capacity Well, no you don’t. The difficulty is deciding whether you are a genuine ageist-fascist or a supremely consistent wind-up merchant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiVibes Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Just now, Jarndyce said: Well, no you don’t. The difficulty is deciding whether you are a genuine ageist-fascist or a supremely consistent wind-up merchant. 4 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said: Beat me to it! I know you lot get distracted easily but give ansering the question a go. this is about making the electoral system fair, why should people with no future vote on the future of others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarndyce Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 3 minutes ago, HiVibes said: why should people with no future vote on the future of others? Remind me: at what age do you consider people to have “no future”? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Just now, HiVibes said: I know you lot get distracted easily but give ansering the question a go. this is about making the electoral system fair, why should people with no future vote on the future of others? Because at the moment they vote, they too have a future. Most will not know if it will be a short or long one, but they have an interest, and many will be entirely dependent on government policy with little scope to isolate themselves from the direct and significant impact it can have on their lives. They also pay tax (remember, no taxation without representation) which very few under 16s do. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IOM Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 9 minutes ago, HiVibes said: I know you lot get distracted easily but give ansering the question a go. this is about making the electoral system fair, why should people with no future vote on the future of others? How about you answer my question ! So you take away the vote but then what do you want to do ? What ideas have you got ? Just changing the composition of the vote won’t change anything you need some ideas ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 31 minutes ago, HiVibes said: [...] of course old people are far more unreasonable and get ever more right wing as they decline, so they shoudl be taken out of the electorate, just makes sense. Actually the idea that people automatically get more right-wing as they age is a bit of a myth. It happens to some extent but usually not a lot and not to every generation (it doesn't seem to be happening to millennials for example, they've actually moved left). There may also be a survivor bias going on - richer people tend to be more right-wing and tend to live longer. So in reality you don't want to take votes off old people - you want to take their money. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 52 minutes ago, HiVibes said: I have not suggested old people have no value, but they are a large burden on infrastructure and something should be done to reduce the pressures on working young people. Whilst the aging population is a problem everywhere, the UK population of over 65 is 18% vs nearly 25%, of course old people are far more unreasonable and get ever more right wing as they decline, so they shoudl be taken out of the electorate, just makes sense. So you are advocating disenfranchising the most experienced folks in the population...? Doesn't sound very clever to me. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiVibes Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 21 minutes ago, IOM said: How about you answer my question ! So you take away the vote but then what do you want to do ? What ideas have you got ? Just changing the composition of the vote won’t change anything you need some ideas ! introduce Capital Gains Tax, increased tax and levies on buy to let, cap rents and rent rises, introduce schemes that make housing affordable for all, that and reduced entitlement to NHS healthcare for immigrants over 60, loads of stuff that would help but will never get through as we have a load of old chuffs fixated with old shit, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyDave Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 16 minutes ago, P.K. said: So you are advocating disenfranchising the most experienced folks in the population...? Doesn't sound very clever to me. Experienced in what though? I am already at a point where my teenagers are a valuable resource to me on lots of subjects because my knowledge and experience is outdated in such a fast moving world and I did my GCSEs in the 90s. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IOM Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 3 minutes ago, HiVibes said: introduce Capital Gains Tax, increased tax and levies on buy to let, cap rents and rent rises, introduce schemes that make housing affordable for all, that and reduced entitlement to NHS healthcare for immigrants over 60, loads of stuff that would help but will never get through as we have a load of old chuffs fixated with old shit, Ok thanks that is at least clear and whilst I don’t agree with all of these I accept that’s your opinion . The thing is outlining your argument in this way is far better than just saying old people are a burden it makes it sound like you don’t value the human life of elderly ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 15 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said: Actually the idea that people automatically get more right-wing as they age is a bit of a myth. I’m not sure it is a myth though Roger. I’ve seen my peers who were socialist firebrands in the youth move increasingly to the right wards. Those, for example totally opposed to the idea of private health in their youth, now availing themselves of it in their older years. Of course that may be because as they get older they have more medical complaints and are more likely to be able to apathy for it. You could be cynical and say it’s easy to oppose something you are less likely to have need of ( if need is the right word) particularly if it’s also unlikely it’s something you would be able to afford. Anyway it’s my perception rightly or wrongly, that people do tend move their politics to the right as they get older. Obviously not all ( the likes of Tony Benn RIP, etc). Anyway I was just ruminating on this the other day and it struck me that parallels could be made with the UK Labour Party. As that too has aged there is no doubt that it has shifted to the right, over the years particularly with the rebrand of “ New Labour”. Maybe that has led individuals who were more on the left to unconsciously move more into the centre ground with that party. The centre becoming more the new left. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 5 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: I’m not sure it is a myth though Roger. I’ve seen my peers who were socialist firebrands in the youth move increasingly to the right wards. Those, for example totally opposed to the idea of private health in their youth, now availing themselves of it in their older years. Of course that may be because as they get older they have more medical complaints and are more likely to be able to apathy for it. As I said it happens to some extent, but not always and not as much as people think. As it happens it is truer of UK Boomer than most groups as these graphs (courtesy John Burn Murdoch) show: but even there you're only talking about maybe 15% changing their vote. And it's much less for others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 17 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: I’m not sure it is a myth though Roger. I’ve seen my peers who were socialist firebrands in the youth move increasingly to the right wards. Those, for example totally opposed to the idea of private health in their youth, now availing themselves of it in their older years. Of course that may be because as they get older they have more medical complaints and are more likely to be able to apathy for it. You could be cynical and say it’s easy to oppose something you are less likely to have need of ( if need is the right word) particularly if it’s also unlikely it’s something you would be able to afford. Anyway it’s my perception rightly or wrongly, that people do tend move their politics to the right as they get older. Obviously not all ( the likes of Tony Benn RIP, etc). Anyway I was just ruminating on this the other day and it struck me that parallels could be made with the UK Labour Party. As that too has aged there is no doubt that it has shifted to the right, over the years particularly with the rebrand of “ New Labour”. Maybe that has led individuals who were more on the left to unconsciously move more into the centre ground with that party. The centre becoming more the new left. Just a thought. There seems to be a tendency to go more Right as you get more wealthy too. The elder are generally more wealthy than the younger so splitting the age from wealth from Conservatives is even trickier. Plus 'new Labour' would again in my opinion be wealthier than of old. Tony was a Lawyer remember, not a factory worker. 1 hour ago, HiVibes said: Well not really I just want equality, why is it that the future generation of 0-16 have no right to vote? And don't go all mental capacity https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/blog/can-people-with-dementia-vote Come on; most of them would vote for whichever candidate made the best Tik Tok video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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