Please Sir can I have more!!

[Albert Tatlock]

14 minutes ago, Newbie said:

Can the government really write legislation that makes it a legal requirement for certain workers to undertake work on a regular basis that they are neither contracted to do nor paid to do? If they are able to, and it survives the almost inevitable legal challenges, it would be very worrying.

Employment law on the island is inherently less favourable to employees here than when compared to e.g. the UK.

But they can't make you do work outside of your contract.

Edited to add...though a lot of companies and organisations tend to base promotion on people demonstrating going 'above and beyond'.

[manxman1980]

2 minutes ago, Asthehills said:

To be fair though, they have got away with it for ages and are only now, after significant pay increases, being told to cut it out.

My kids after school activities were impacted.  How on earth can a teacher say that they didn’t expect after school activities to be part of their job?  I don’t care if it’s in their contract or not, it’s a part of teaching that anyone who has been to school in the last 50 years or more will know is part of their job.

What a load of BS.  Once teaching has finished for the day the children become the responsibility of their parents again.   

After school clubs are an addition to the day and are only necessary because of employers being inflexible with working hours

 

[Banker]

I don’t think Alf will need to do anything as the public opinion is that teachers have had enough & there’s no support for them amongst parents.

Geraldines constant whining voice is another turn off for many 

[TheTeapot]

42 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

 

After school clubs are an addition to the day and are only necessary because of employers being inflexible with working hours

 

What do you mean by after school clubs here? Often after school clubs offer lessons in things outside the curriculum, especially music, they aren't just some babysitting service.

[Asthehills]

50 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

What a load of BS.  Once teaching has finished for the day the children become the responsibility of their parents again.   

After school clubs are an addition to the day and are only necessary because of employers being inflexible with working hours

 

My kids going to Rugby matches was because my employer was inflexible, rather than them not missing lessons?

Really?

[Newbie]

1 hour ago, Asthehills said:

To be fair though, they have got away with it for ages and are only now, after significant pay increases, being told to cut it out.

My kids after school activities were impacted.  How on earth can a teacher say that they didn’t expect after school activities to be part of their job?  I don’t care if it’s in their contract or not, it’s a part of teaching that anyone who has been to school in the last 50 years or more will know is part of their job.

I guess it is what happens when you have an activity considered important and useful by parents/pupils that is essentially reliant upon goodwill, once the goodwill is lost.

What are the options then. You can either try to regain the goodwill by engaging with teachers and their concerns, you can include the activity in their contracted work (with commensurate pay) or you can legislate to force them to undertake any work their employer asks them to do whether it is in their contract or not (which is probably not possible anyway, whatever Alf says). To my mind, the third option, if it was feasible, is the least desirable outcome for many reasons.

[manxman1980]

1 hour ago, Asthehills said:

My kids going to Rugby matches was because my employer was inflexible, rather than them not missing lessons?

Really?

 

1 hour ago, TheTeapot said:

What do you mean by after school clubs here? Often after school clubs offer lessons in things outside the curriculum, especially music, they aren't just some babysitting service.

I was talking about the type of after school clubs where children are just left with the School because the parents cannot leave work to collect them.

Sure, there is a difference between the after school groups linked to things like sport and music and where the children are there almost 'voluntarily' as opposed to it being the only option until a parent can collect them.

[Asthehills]

56 minutes ago, Newbie said:

I guess it is what happens when you have an activity considered important and useful by parents/pupils that is essentially reliant upon goodwill, once the goodwill is lost.

What are the options then. You can either try to regain the goodwill by engaging with teachers and their concerns, you can include the activity in their contracted work (with commensurate pay) or you can legislate to force them to undertake any work their employer asks them to do whether it is in their contract or not (which is probably not possible anyway, whatever Alf says). To my mind, the third option, if it was feasible, is the least desirable outcome for many reasons.

Give them a fair pay rise (done) and expect them to work like most other people Which is by doing extra duties reasonably expected within your role.

If they refuse, find a way of dismissing them and replacing them with newly qualified teachers who are there for the right reasons and still enthusiastic.  I would suggest the ground work for this is already done with the huge recent jump in the starting salary making the island a much more attractive place for new teachers.

[Asthehills]

17 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

 

I was talking about the type of after school clubs where children are just left with the School because the parents cannot leave work to collect them.

Sure, there is a difference between the after school groups linked to things like sport and music and where the children are there almost 'voluntarily' as opposed to it being the only option until a parent can collect them.

Ah ok.  No, we were talking about the activities that them not doing are negatively impacting on kids, yet which are a perfectly reasonable expectation as part of a role as a teacher.

[Banker]

19 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

 

I was talking about the type of after school clubs where children are just left with the School because the parents cannot leave work to collect them.

Sure, there is a difference between the after school groups linked to things like sport and music and where the children are there almost 'voluntarily' as opposed to it being the only option until a parent can collect them.

Never heard of after school clubs just to leave children & they certainly didn’t have them when my kids were younger. If no relatives were available they went to paid after schools like Beehive in Onchan 

[manxman1980]

14 minutes ago, Banker said:

Never heard of after school clubs just to leave children & they certainly didn’t have them when my kids were younger. If no relatives were available they went to paid after schools like Beehive in Onchan 

Really?

Did you know there are also "breakfast clubs" now?

[Newbie]

32 minutes ago, Asthehills said:

Give them a fair pay rise (done) and expect them to work like most other people Which is by doing extra duties reasonably expected within your role.

If they refuse, find a way of dismissing them and replacing them with newly qualified teachers who are there for the right reasons and still enthusiastic.  I would suggest the ground work for this is already done with the huge recent jump in the starting salary making the island a much more attractive place for new teachers.

So give them a below inflation pay rise (aka pay cut in real terms), ignore their requests to discuss a multi year pay deal to try to address a decade of pay erosion, and insist that they carry out work they aren't contracted to do. If they refuse, 'find a way' to dismiss them. If their union tries to stand up for them, introduce legislation to put a stop to that. All sounds very sinister.

[Asthehills]

50 minutes ago, Newbie said:

So give them a below inflation pay rise (aka pay cut in real terms), ignore their requests to discuss a multi year pay deal to try to address a decade of pay erosion, and insist that they carry out work they aren't contracted to do. If they refuse, 'find a way' to dismiss them. If their union tries to stand up for them, introduce legislation to put a stop to that. All sounds very sinister.

Sounds like the real world to me.  If you think that’s it’s sinister then I guess we are just very different.

Edited December 18, 2022 by Asthehills

[Newbie]

1 hour ago, Asthehills said:

Sounds like the real world to me.  If you think that’s it’s sinister then I guess we are just very different.

It was the 'find a way of dismissing them' that I found disturbing. 

Sadly, I think you may be right that it is representative of the real world as you put it. If you can't see that it is those sort of attitudes that contribute towards the growing and unsustainable inequity in society, or if you can see that but think it is OK anyway, I think we are very different.

ETA: The fact that Banker has deployed his overused laughing emoji reassures me at least that there must be something in it!

Edited December 18, 2022 by Newbie

[Meoir Shee]

It is a shame that despite all the hot air and bluster, this vacant post has now been advertised at least three times since September.  It can only be assumed that there hasn’t been a single suitable applicant.  I wonder how many kids haven’t had a Geography teacher for the past 4 months and will be unlikely to have one until at least Easter, 200+?