genericUserName Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 4 hours ago, Max Power said: This has opened up a crack for the unions to pry open further, they are fighting for their existence in many areas and industries. They need Union subs and there’s nothing like action to increase memberships! Not sure whether you ever read or watch the news - but the trades unions are currently enjoying a significant renaissance which is entirely down to the pendulum having swung far to far and for too long in favour of big business, the wealthy and the wealthly elderly. As capitalists, we need to understand that this is an example of reaping what we sow. 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Lamb Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 One benefit of this dispute ending will be that it shoots the fox some obsessed bores have been chasing on here ad nauseam. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 7 minutes ago, Harry Lamb said: One benefit of this dispute ending will be that it shoots the fox some obsessed bores have been chasing on here ad nauseam. No chance. Those curtains will keep twitching for ever. The advantage of getting mad at imaginary things is that you can keep at it for ever - or at least as long as it suits. And you never have to look at the real word or its problems. (There, I've just explained the British media for you). 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 1 hour ago, genericUserName said: Not sure whether you ever read or watch the news - but the trades unions are currently enjoying a significant renaissance which is entirely down to the pendulum having swung far to far and for too long in favour of big business, the wealthy and the wealthly elderly. As capitalists, we need to understand that this is an example of reaping what we sow. Oh really? Like the poor train drivers and their refusal to allow technology in to their lives and provide a decent service at fares that the public can afford, whilst they are on wages comparable to airline pilots? You mention the 'wealthy' who are shareholders, without shareholders there is no funding to employ anyone! Like the teachers with their wonderful terms and conditions, compared to many in the private sector, no 'big business' here! Likewise the Nurses, no 'big business' there either! I agree that employment terms for many in the private sector are abysmal, but no unions are shouting about that! Isn't that odd, it's all in the public services that the problems appear to lie? 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkenMonkey Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 4 hours ago, 0bserver said: It's good to see the Union has blinked first with the realisation (finally) that their demand for a 30% payrise was massively out of touch with reality. They should be put on a pay freeze. Can you find a source for the union demanding a 30% pay rise? The union sent an offer to the government last week to call off the strike, it was only today that the government got their act together and responded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0bserver Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 6 hours ago, DrunkenMonkey said: Can you find a source for the union demanding a 30% pay rise? I can, can you? [Extra marks if you show your working] 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkenMonkey Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 57 minutes ago, 0bserver said: I can, can you? [Extra marks if you show your working] I'm just asking for proof of your claim, please don't try to shift the burden of proof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0bserver Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 1 hour ago, DrunkenMonkey said: I'm just asking for proof of your claim, please don't try to shift the burden of proof. You really should so your own homework and stop copying others. https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/30-pay-increase-for-teachers-not-realistic/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 12 hours ago, Max Power said: Oh really? Like the poor train drivers and their refusal to allow technology in to their lives and provide a decent service at fares that the public can afford, whilst they are on wages comparable to airline pilots? You mention the 'wealthy' who are shareholders, without shareholders there is no funding to employ anyone! Sorry but you are living in fairy land if you think the only thing preventing driverless trains is the Unions. It has been pointed out many times that the UK rail infrastructure would require a huge investment in order to allow the safe operation of driverless trains. I am not aware of anyone willing to make that investment at this stage. It is, however, a useful way to portray Train Drivers as greedy, selfish and blocking progress. 12 hours ago, Max Power said: Like the teachers with their wonderful terms and conditions, compared to many in the private sector, no 'big business' here! Likewise the Nurses, no 'big business' there either! Those are public services which we all pay for in tax. If you believe they should be privatised then you don't believe that they should be public services and available to all. 12 hours ago, Max Power said: I agree that employment terms for many in the private sector are abysmal, but no unions are shouting about that! Isn't that odd, it's all in the public services that the problems appear to lie? You are generalising. There are private sector employers who have excellent terms and conditions. There are plenty of people working in Construction trades whose whole terms and conditions are governed by Trade Union Agreements and the TU's will fight tooth and nail for them when needed. Private sector pay disputes also tend not to make national news because they don't impact everyone. There are plenty of Private sector businesses where terms and conditions are poor and people are trying to Unionise. See Amazon Warehouses as an example. There are others where workers are simply exploited but have very limited rights because people felt they didn't need a Trade Union. I would point to most people working zero hour contracts for the likes of Amazon, Delivered, etc etc. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 7 minutes ago, 0bserver said: You really should so your own homework and stop copying others. https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/30-pay-increase-for-teachers-not-realistic/ I assume you understand how negotiations work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0bserver Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 2 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: I assume you understand how negotiations work? In the private sector, yes. Public sector negotiations rarely have any grounding in reality. As shown by a 30% pay demand. If they had asked for 10% they would have 10% already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyNoMates Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 dont you normally ask for x then the opposition offers z and in the end you settle on y? thats how i remember negotiation. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkenMonkey Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 54 minutes ago, 0bserver said: You really should so your own homework and stop copying others. https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/30-pay-increase-for-teachers-not-realistic/ Just because Edge says it doesn't make it true. Not a single release from the NASUWT has ever claimed that they want a 30% increase. 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 54 minutes ago, 0bserver said: In the private sector, yes. Public sector negotiations rarely have any grounding in reality. As shown by a 30% pay demand. If they had asked for 10% they would have 10% already. Ms Edge was being disingenuous in that interview. She presumably got the 30% figure from a statement made by the NASUWT to the effect that their pay had dropped in real terms by 30% since 2010. They were asking for a multi-year pay deal to start to address that problem. They weren't asking for a 30% pay increase this year. You really shouldn't believe everything you read. I guess Ms Edge felt that it would help the Government's position if she made it seem that they were asking for 30% in one year 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0bserver Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 44 minutes ago, Newbie said: Ms Edge was being disingenuous in that interview. She presumably got the 30% figure from a statement made by the NASUWT to the effect that their pay had dropped in real terms by 30% since 2010. They were asking for a multi-year pay deal to start to address that problem. They weren't asking for a 30% pay increase this year. You really shouldn't believe everything you read. I guess Ms Edge felt that it would help the Government's position if she made it seem that they were asking for 30% in one year 30% is 30% 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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