b4mbi Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 My understanding that an urgent question has been tabled for discussion in this afternoon's Tynwald sitting regarding this matter. Let's hope a) it is discussed b) actions follow, not more words.... Hope springs eternal.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 22 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said: So nurses and firefighters shouldn’t be suitably paid either? I posed the question a while back but strangely nobody answered... Simply put who defines what constitutes suitable pay and based on what criteria? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cissolt Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 6 minutes ago, b4mbi said: My understanding that an urgent question has been tabled for discussion in this afternoon's Tynwald sitting regarding this matter. Let's hope a) it is discussed b) actions follow, not more words.... Hope springs eternal.... Ms Faragher has raised the question, as a Manx labour candidate surely she is in favour of the campaign for better pay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 18 minutes ago, P.K. said: I posed the question a while back but strangely nobody answered... Simply put who defines what constitutes suitable pay and based on what criteria? Staffing shortage/abundance is probably the most obvious. Particularly for essential services. If we can't attract people to necessary roles then that is a national problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted September 22, 2022 Author Share Posted September 22, 2022 29 minutes ago, cissolt said: Ms Faragher has raised the question, as a Manx labour candidate surely she is in favour of the campaign for better pay? Interesting to hear her plans on financing it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyJoe Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 28 minutes ago, cissolt said: Ms Faragher has raised the question, as a Manx labour candidate surely she is in favour of the campaign for better pay? Winning MLP candidate - top of the poll in fact Where have you seen the question? It's not on either of the Tynwald Twitter feeds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 21 minutes ago, HeliX said: Staffing shortage/abundance is probably the most obvious. Particularly for essential services. If we can't attract people to necessary roles then that is a national problem. So according to you it's not based on outputs but rather on competition for staff presumably UK ROI? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 19 minutes ago, P.K. said: So according to you it's not based on outputs but rather on competition for staff presumably UK ROI? It's already not based on outputs, it's on fixed scales. Probably a lesser of two evils when compared to exploitability/favouritism of "output" based pay in public sector. But yes, basing it on competition for staff seems to be about the only workable approach when a lack of staff in these roles is societally detrimental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcousticallyChallenged Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 1 hour ago, P.K. said: I posed the question a while back but strangely nobody answered... Simply put who defines what constitutes suitable pay and based on what criteria? If you can’t keep your staff or recruit more, either their working conditions are rubbish, or prospects are better elsewhere. Market demands for skills generally set suitable pay. Someone will always pay for who they want/need. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 56 minutes ago, P.K. said: So according to you it's not based on outputs but rather on competition for staff presumably UK ROI? Go on then how would you manage a firefighters pay based on output? Number of fires prevented? Number of fire extinguished? Length of time taken to conduct a fire risk assessment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 18 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: Go on then how would you manage a firefighters pay based on output? Number of fires prevented? Number of fire extinguished? Length of time taken to conduct a fire risk assessment? It's not that simple. The miners were always demonised by tory governments which in turn enabled Thatcher to destroy their communities. However what was never mentioned about their strikes for better pay and conditions was the truly appalling accident rate underground. Absolutely awful. Since the destruction of UK mining that unfortunate accolade has been passed on to the fishermen. Now we all know that fire-fighting is dangerous. A lot are also shift workers which really messes up your body clock and family and social lives. So I would pay them more than teachers just for starters.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cissolt Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 Is anyone listening to the statement from Dr Allanson? He has mentioned reducing fuel duty, I assume he's talking about the previous reduction and not an actual proactive measure being taken by our government? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 2 minutes ago, P.K. said: It's not that simple. The miners were always demonised by tory governments which in turn enabled Thatcher to destroy their communities. However what was never mentioned about their strikes for better pay and conditions was the truly appalling accident rate underground. Absolutely awful. Since the destruction of UK mining that unfortunate accolade has been passed on to the fishermen. Now we all know that fire-fighting is dangerous. A lot are also shift workers which really messes up your body clock and family and social lives. So I would pay them more than teachers just for starters.... You haven't answered the question though... how would you pay firefighters based on output? How would you pay teachers based on output? What measures would you use? Exam and testing results? What about Primary school teachers? How would you account for difficult behaviour of pupils? What about pupils with poor attendance? What about the impact of parents on their child's education? Teachers aren't producing widgets. They are dealing with individuals whose ability and application can vary massively. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 43 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: Go on then how would you manage a firefighters pay based on output? Number of fires prevented? Number of fire extinguished? Length of time taken to conduct a fire risk assessment? How shiny they keep their equipment? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 7 minutes ago, Happier diner said: How shiny they keep their equipment? Are you volunteering to assess how shiny they keep their helmets and poles? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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