Please Sir can I have more!!

[P.K.]

58 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

You are avoiding the question which was in response to your suggestion that they should be paid on output.

What output are you going to measure?

As for being there to teach... even going back over a decade I know of reception teachers who were having to deal with children who were not toilet trained.  I also know of one case where there were two social workers in the class to support two children...

The experience of many teachers is now far removed from what you are imagining.

I think you mean they are contracted to 30 hours teaching.  They will also have at least another 5 hours within their contract for preparatory work.

Most still work over and above those hours without time off in lieu or overtime payments.

As for the holidays they are often expected to be in school during the school holidays for training or preparing for the new year.

Those holidays are also at the most expensive times of the year without the ability to take time off when cheaper holidays are available for obvious reasons.

The question I asked was who decides and by what measurements are used to define what would constitute a "decent wage" or whatever.

"Outputs" or "contribution" or whatever are measurable in the private sector because there is a bottom line, markets, products and services to sell etc and everyone knows who is doing well and who isn't.

This simply does not exist in the public sector. As to teachers I very much doubt if the curriculum changes drastically from year to year that would need a drastic overhaul of what they are going to teach. I would certainly like to know how much time teachers take in a classes every day and what they do the rest of the time?

So some get in at 8:00 am. Big deal. Maybe they take that time to mark homework from the previous day? Leaving at 5:00 pm - yes please....

The "holidays at the most expensive time of the year" is the most facile argument I have heard on here for a long time. If teachers have kids, a likely assumption, then they are forced to take their holidays at the same time of year as the rest of us. Dear me....

[Asthehills]

45 minutes ago, DrunkenMonkey said:

1 hour ago, somewhatdamaged said:

 

Teachers do not get paid holidays. They get paid for their contracted hours, pro rata throughout the year

So what’s the answer to the question I asked previously about what their actual salary is if not pro ratad to take into account the huge time off?

I am fully aware why none of the teachers posting here have answered this.

 

Edited September 22, 2022 by Asthehills

[Mercenary]

7 minutes ago, Asthehills said:

So what’s the answer to the question I asked previously about what their actual salary is if not pro ratad to take into account the huge time off?

I am fully aware why none of the teachers posting here have answered this.

 

If you prorated the hours and salary to a 7.5 hour day, 220 days a year, the median salary would be above £60k.

[Whiskey]

I had a little Google. 
from the NASUWT site:  https://www.nasuwt.org.uk/advice/conditions-of-service/teachers-working-hours/directed-time-england.html

1265 hours a year are allocated by the school. There is indeed an “any additional reasonable hours as necessary “ clause that’s in most salaried contracts in most sectors.  

Interestingly, there is a specific paragraph stating teachers aren’t supposed to be asked to work at lunchtime - it’s not part of their hours. Which means that if it’s been happening in these schools then the department has been getting away with this for years, and then blaming the teachers when they say no.  

Edited September 22, 2022 by Whiskey

[Asthehills]

6 minutes ago, Mercenary said:

If you prorated the hours and salary to a 7.5 hour day, 220 days a year, the median salary would be above £60k.

Correct.  Hard done to they are

[HeliX]

4 minutes ago, Asthehills said:

Correct.  Hard done to they are

If they weren't working 40-60 hour weeks you might have a point. The contracted hours are meaningless, as is pretty evident by the system falling apart as soon as teachers stick to them.

[DrunkenMonkey]

3 minutes ago, HeliX said:

If they weren't working 40-60 hour weeks you might have a point. The contracted hours are meaningless, as is pretty evident by the system falling apart as soon as teachers stick to them.

I make it about £12 per hour starting salary when you take into account actual hours worked according to surveys.

[Asthehills]

2 minutes ago, HeliX said:

If they weren't working 40-60 hour weeks you might have a point. The contracted hours are meaningless, as is pretty evident by the system falling apart as soon as teachers stick to them.

You don’t get it.

Most people on 25-40k a year are working 40-50 hours a week.

The difference between them and teachers is they only get four to five weeks a year holiday.

I keep hearing that people need to shadow a teacher for a week to understand.  Maybe this should become common and teachers could also shadow a restaurant manager, a mechanic, an office worker etc.

I have a feeling the teachers might be suprised

[HeliX]

14 minutes ago, Mercenary said:

If you prorated the hours and salary to a 7.5 hour day, 220 days a year, the median salary would be above £60k.

Where did you get 46k for the current median from? Doesn't seem to tally with this: https://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/politics/teachers-take-home-pay-232641

[HeliX]

1 minute ago, Asthehills said:

You don’t get it.

Most people on 25-40k a year are working 40-50 hours a week.

The difference between them and teachers is they only get four to five weeks a year holiday.

I keep hearing that people need to shadow a teacher for a week to understand.  Maybe this should become common and teachers could also shadow a restaurant manager, a mechanic, an office worker etc.

I have a feeling the teachers might be suprised

"Most people on 25-40k a year are working 40-50 hours a week."

Nope.

https://www.gov.im/media/1377658/2022-earnings-survey-2021-final-report.pdf

[AcousticallyChallenged]

3 minutes ago, Asthehills said:

You don’t get it.

Most people on 25-40k a year are working 40-50 hours a week.

The difference between them and teachers is they only get four to five weeks a year holiday.

I keep hearing that people need to shadow a teacher for a week to understand.  Maybe this should become common and teachers could also shadow a restaurant manager, a mechanic, an office worker etc.

I have a feeling the teachers might be suprised

How many hours do you work for your six figures?

[Asthehills]

5 minutes ago, HeliX said:

"Most people on 25-40k a year are working 40-50 hours a week."

Nope.

https://www.gov.im/media/1377658/2022-earnings-survey-2021-final-report.pdf

Lol

That doesn’t include all the extra hours people work.

I would show on that as 37.5 hours with no overtime because I don’t get overtime or record extra hours worked

Most of my staff do get overtime, so they would be represented on that graphic.

I like lots of others work lots of unpaid hours which wouldn’t be included on there.

Teachers are just determined not to believe what goes on in the real world 

Edited September 22, 2022 by Asthehills

[HeliX]

1 minute ago, Asthehills said:

Lol

That doesn’t include all the extra hours people work.

I would show on that as 37.5 hours with no overtime because I don’t get overtime.

Most of my staff do get overtime, so they would be represented on that graphic.

I like lots of others work lots of unpaid hours which wouldn’t be included on there.

Teachers are just determined not to believe what goes on in the real world 

Nope, the relevant questions on the survey were:
"(b) How many hours, excluding overtime and meal breaks, did the employee work in the pay period selected in question 3a?"

"(b) Please enter the hours of overtime worked during the pay period. (Please enter in hours and minutes HH:MM, e.g. 4 hours would be stated as 04:00)"

"(c) Please enter the amount of overtime paid relating to the hours stated in question 4b. Please enter in the form of £0.00. If none, please enter 0."

I'm not a teacher.

[Asthehills]

5 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

How many hours do you work for your six figures?

Contracted 37.5

this week has been before 7 am until after 6pm every day, most days with no lunch break and a sandwich on the go.

This morning there was a work call at 5:30 before I went in.

Most evenings there are emails and work done at home.

I do a few hours at home most Sunday morning and am on the end of the phone all day Saturday because the business is open although I try not to be there.

Not sure exactly what my hours have to do with it though.

 

[Banker]

11 minutes ago, DrunkenMonkey said:

I make it about £12 per hour starting salary when you take into account actual hours worked according to surveys.

The survey completed by teachers trying to be prove they work hard 😂