DrunkenMonkey Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 Just now, Asthehills said: 33k plus however many weeks a year off? Lol You asked for a quantifiable answer. Nice rebuttal. 2 minutes ago, Asthehills said: Where has anyone attacked anyone? By the way. Police and nurse both have much more challenging roles than teachers and imo a new starter into either of those roles should earn about 40 percent more than a new teacher. Especially if you take into account eh hours and time off Yes that would be good, we should pay the Police and Nurses more too. There is a recruitment and retention crisis in both of those sectors. Maybe they should unionise! Oh wait, the nurses already are and the police are unable to take industrial action, so the police just quit instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asthehills Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, DrunkenMonkey said: You asked for a quantifiable answer. Nice rebuttal I wouldn’t have an issue with 33k if they dropped to four weeks off like everyone else. they could use the rest of the time the kids aren’t at school to refresh their skills with formal refresher training and do loads of admin, prepare for the new term etc. Sounds like a fair compromise to me. They get the extra money they want to assist with the cost of living but have to give up the huge benefit that is their time off. We get better trained and less stressed teachers nexus’s they are now earning a better wage and working full time with more time to complete all their tasks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkenMonkey Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 Just now, Asthehills said: I wouldn’t have an issue with 33k if they dropped to four weeks off like everyone else. they could use the rest of the time the kids aren’t at school to refresh their skills with formal refresher training and do loads of admin, prepare for the new term etc. Sounds like a fair compromise to me. They get the extra money they want to assist with the cost of living but have to give up the huge benefit that is their time off. We get better trained and less stressed teachers nexus’s they are now earning a better wage and working full time with more time to complete all their tasks This could actually be a solution. Maybe the teachers should take industrial action to force the DESC to the negotiating table to discuss their working terms and present sensible ideas like this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcousticallyChallenged Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 5 minutes ago, Asthehills said: I wouldn’t have an issue with 33k if they dropped to four weeks off like everyone else. they could use the rest of the time the kids aren’t at school to refresh their skills with formal refresher training and do loads of admin, prepare for the new term etc. Sounds like a fair compromise to me. They get the extra money they want to assist with the cost of living but have to give up the huge benefit that is their time off. We get better trained and less stressed teachers nexus’s they are now earning a better wage and working full time with more time to complete all their tasks Do you actually know any teachers? Most spend their “holidays” doing planning, paperwork, assessments etc etc. it isn’t just 6 weeks of dossing about over the summer, for example. Never mind dealing with any safeguarding or child protection issues that they then need to flag up, document and deal with. As well as preparing resources, classrooms, lesson plans and so on. You can certainly travel the world in your time off as a teacher, but you’ll have a wine glass in one hand, and a pen or laptop in the other. If they did work to rule, doing the cushy on paper hours, sure, I could see the conflict with how much they get paid vs what you have in your mind. But, your mind’s image seems to have little bearing on any reality. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holte End Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 1 minute ago, DrunkenMonkey said: This could actually be a solution. Maybe the teachers should take industrial action to force the DESC to the negotiating table to discuss their working terms and present sensible ideas like this. Again could you tell me exactly what they are asking for ffs. Get round a negotiating table for what, If they don't put forward a counter proposal and explain to the public exactly what they want, I mean is it top secret, I seen what fearandloathing2021 has put,but that is just his opinion. It can't be that difficult or is it the public will go against them, beecause they are asking for something outrageous. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asthehills Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said: Do you actually know any teachers? Most spend their “holidays” doing planning, paperwork, assessments etc etc. it isn’t just 6 weeks of dossing about over the summer, for example. Never mind dealing with any safeguarding or child protection issues that they then need to flag up, document and deal with. As well as preparing resources, classrooms, lesson plans and so on. You can certainly travel the world in your time off as a teacher, but you’ll have a wine glass in one hand, and a pen or laptop in the other. If they did work to rule, doing the cushy on paper hours, sure, I could see the conflict with how much they get paid vs what you have in your mind. But, your mind’s image seems to have little bearing on any reality. That’s fine then. They wouldn’t have any issue with going into school to do it and dropping to four weeks proper holiday where they could properly switch off like other people do in return for more money. Only we all know they wouldn’t want to work normal hours would they Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkenMonkey Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 5 minutes ago, Holte End said: Again could you tell me exactly what they are asking for ffs. Get round a negotiating table for what, If they don't put forward a counter proposal and explain to the public exactly what they want, I mean is it top secret, I seen what fearandloathing2021 has put,but that is just his opinion. It can't be that difficult or is it the public will go against them, beecause they are asking for something outrageous. It's literally a public document, don't be lazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkenMonkey Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, Asthehills said: That’s fine then. They wouldn’t have any issue with going into school to do it and dropping to four weeks proper holiday where they could properly switch off like other people do in return for more money. Only we all know they wouldn’t want to work normal hours would they They already do... "In the second Teacher Workload Survey, teachers and middle leaders reported working an average of 49.5 hours per week in 2019, down by 4.9 hours compared to 2016. Headteachers and senior leaders also saw a significant fall, to an average of 55.1 hours per week in 2019." https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teacher-workload-cut-by-five-hours-a-week-over-past-three-years#:~:text=In the second Teacher Workload,hours per week in 2019. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcousticallyChallenged Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, Asthehills said: That’s fine then. They wouldn’t have any issue with going into school to do it and dropping to four weeks proper holiday where they could properly switch off like other people do in return for more money. Only we all know they wouldn’t want to work normal hours would they What meanie is giving you four weeks? UK statutory is 5.6. Many teachers will leave at 4-5, having gotten in at 8 before the kids, put their own kids to bed and do a couple more hours work in the evening, hence the emails from teachers parents get around 11pm etc. it’s often the opportunity they’ve got to do it. I imagine many teachers wouldn’t mind the approach you describe if they were suitably paid for it. But the crux lies in being suitably paid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asthehills Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 8 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said: but you’ll have a wine glass in one hand, and a pen or laptop in the other. That would go part way to explaining the poor exam results. We should be streets ahead of the UK average but the teachers I know which includes close family members are lazy and wouldn’t last a month in a normal job working normal hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkenMonkey Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, Asthehills said: That would go part way to explaining the poor exam results. We should be streets ahead of the UK average but the teachers I know which includes close family members are lazy and wouldn’t last a month in a normal job working normal hours. Try telling them that over the dinner table, you'll enable the change you wish to see in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asthehills Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said: imagine many teachers wouldn’t mind the approach you describe if they were suitably paid for it. But the crux lies in being suitably paid. 33k starting as suggested above but they actually have to be on site 40 hours a week and get the same holidays as normal civil servants with some consideration for the fact that they have to take holiday at fixed times. That actually isn’t than unusual either. In my industry we get 20 days plus bank holidays, but are contractually obliged to take some of those day when the business is closed for TT and between Xmas and New Year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, Asthehills said: That actually isn’t than unusual either. In my industry we get 20 days plus bank holidays, but are contractually obliged to take some of those day when the business is closed for TT and between Xmas and New Year. 20 + 8 = 28 days 28 days = 5.6 weeks. You are getting the statutory minimum amount of annual leave. Bank/public holidays do not exist in employment legislation. My private sector employer gives a basic of 6.6 weeks holiday plus a day off on your birthday and additional holiday for long service. You may want to consider taking industrial action to improve your lot... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asthehills Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: 20 + 8 = 28 days 28 days = 5.6 weeks. You are getting the statutory minimum amount of annual leave. Bank/public holidays do not exist in employment legislation. My private sector employer gives a basic of 6.6 weeks holiday plus a day off on your birthday and additional holiday for long service. You may want to consider taking industrial action to improve your lot... I am happy with my lot thanks. Do you think teachers would go for an increase but a shift to normal civil service hours? I don’t, because as much as they don’t admit it the short hours and long holidays are part of what is actually a fair and generous overall package that also saves them money on child care etc that other people have to pay. Edited September 25, 2022 by Asthehills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holte End Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 (edited) 36 minutes ago, DrunkenMonkey said: It's literally a public document, don't be lazy. I think you need to keep up because that make it so clear. Layman's terms wouldn't go a miss. What details? What changes would they like to see Why can't they put recommdations around how teachers wellbeing can be improved Edited September 25, 2022 by Holte End Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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