Wavey Davey Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Holte End said: Again could you tell me exactly what they are asking for ffs. Get round a negotiating table for what, If they don't put forward a counter proposal and explain to the public exactly what they want, I mean is it top secret, I seen what fearandloathing2021 has put,but that is just his opinion. It can't be that difficult or is it the public will go against them, beecause they are asking for something outrageous. The BBC story summarised in that blog is here https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-isle-of-man-63010102 I agree it isn’t clear but it suggests they’re going for what has been recommended by the Independent School Teachers Review Body in the UK which is between 5% and 8.9%. But you're right it isn’t really clear at all what they’re asking for as he then mentions “below inflation” and inflation is about 10%! Edited September 25, 2022 by Wavey Davey 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 15 minutes ago, Asthehills said: I am happy with my lot thanks. Do you think teachers would go for an increase but a shift to normal civil service hours? I don’t, because as much as they don’t admit it the short hours and long holidays are part of what is actually a fair and generous overall package that also saves them money on child care etc that other people have to pay. Have you or the Government asked them? You do, however, seem to be labouring under some potentially false assumptions. Do you really think a standard civil service contract is for 40 hours per week? I doubt it and would imagine it will be either 35 or 37.5 hours per week. In relation to your own employment it really does sound like your employer is one which does only what it has to by law for its employees. I suggest that you may want to look ahead at the potential ramifications of the UK Government scrapping legislation such as the Working Time Regulations at the end of 2023. The IOM Government may not follow suit but if it does you might be saying goodbye to those 5.6 weeks holiday you currently are happy with. Again as a benchmark my Contracted weekly hours in the private sector are 35 hours per week with flexible working and home working if I want it. I won't list all the other benefits but it includes private medical insurance for myself and partner. These are not just for senior employees even people joining as apprentices get the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asthehills Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 8 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: Have you or the Government asked them? You do, however, seem to be labouring under some potentially false assumptions. Do you really think a standard civil service contract is for 40 hours per week? I doubt it and would imagine it will be either 35 or 37.5 hours per week. In relation to your own employment it really does sound like your employer is one which does only what it has to by law for its employees. I suggest that you may want to look ahead at the potential ramifications of the UK Government scrapping legislation such as the Working Time Regulations at the end of 2023. The IOM Government may not follow suit but if it does you might be saying goodbye to those 5.6 weeks holiday you currently are happy with. Again as a benchmark my Contracted weekly hours in the private sector are 35 hours per week with flexible working and home working if I want it. I won't list all the other benefits but it includes private medical insurance for myself and partner. These are not just for senior employees even people joining as apprentices get the same. Who said I didn’t have flexible working? Who said I didn’t have private healthcare for me and my family? Who said I can’t work from home if I want to? You are jumping to a lot of conclusions. Like I said, I am more than happy with my lot but I really can’t get my head round what this one particular Union are unhappy with or why they expect to change as a result of messing with kids education. Dont forget that the other two unions are happy with what has been offered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkenMonkey Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 4 minutes ago, Asthehills said: Who said I didn’t have flexible working? Who said I didn’t have private healthcare for me and my family? Who said I can’t work from home if I want to? You are jumping to a lot of conclusions. Like I said, I am more than happy with my lot but I really can’t get my head round what this one particular Union are unhappy with or why they expect to change as a result of messing with kids education. Dont forget that the other two unions are happy with what has been offered The other two unions do not represent the majority of the workforce, even combined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, Asthehills said: Who said I didn’t have flexible working? Who said I didn’t have private healthcare for me and my family? Who said I can’t work from home if I want to? You are jumping to a lot of conclusions. Like I said, I am more than happy with my lot but I really can’t get my head round what this one particular Union are unhappy with or why they expect to change as a result of messing with kids education. Dont forget that the other two unions are happy with what has been offered I never said you didn't have those things. I said that I did in addition to the extra holiday I get. Based on what you had posted it sounded like you may get a good salary but rest or certainly some elements of your package are at the statutory minimums. I have already said why the Union and Teachers are taking action now. You need to direct your ire at the Government for not getting this sorted out at the negotiating table. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asthehills Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 5 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: I never said you didn't have those things. I said that I did in addition to the extra holiday I get. Based on what you had posted it sounded like you may get a good salary but rest or certainly some elements of your package are at the statutory minimums. I have already said why the Union and Teachers are taking action now. You need to direct your ire at the Government for not getting this sorted out at the negotiating table. You know nothing about my package. I can buy extra holidays if I want up to eight weeks a year. That still wouldn’t bring me close to what a teacher gets and would cost me thousands of pounds. This massive peel is constantly ignored by the teachers and their supporters. It a huge peel that lots would happily take a significant pay cut to have themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Asthehills said: We should be streets ahead of the UK average We are. Honestly this thread is pointless. It's just the same handful of people ignoring whatever statistics are put in front of them so they can continue to be angry at the imaginary work conditions they want to believe teachers have. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 14 minutes ago, Asthehills said: This massive peel is constantly ignored by the teachers and their supporters. It a huge peel that lots would happily take a significant pay cut to have themselves. Peel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Lamb Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 19 minutes ago, Asthehills said: You know nothing about my package. I can buy extra holidays if I want up to eight weeks a year. That still wouldn’t bring me close to what a teacher gets and would cost me thousands of pounds. This massive peel is constantly ignored by the teachers and their supporters. It a huge peel that lots would happily take a significant pay cut to have themselves. This suggests 2 things: 1. You're jealous. 2. Your acceptance of these terms outs you as a mug. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, HeliX said: Honestly this thread is pointless. It's just the same handful of people ignoring whatever statistics are put in front of them so they can continue to be angry at the imaginary work conditions they want to believe teachers have. Honestly my sister was a teacher and changes to the curriculum were very rare ie very little work outside of term time. Now if they were teaching in a deprived part of a UK inner city I might have some sympathy with possible stress levels. But they're not. Obviously their IOM public service T&C's of over-manned, over-graded and thus over-paid jobs-for-life massive lump sums and very generously pensioned does grate on those in the private sector who have none of those bennies but nonetheless are all expected to pay for the teachers to have them... Add to that a union rep who behaves like there's a magic money tree and even reasonable people will take umbrage. Basically nobody likes to be ripped off.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 5 minutes ago, P.K. said: Honestly my sister was a teacher and changes to the curriculum were very rare ie very little work outside of term time. Now if they were teaching in a deprived part of a UK inner city I might have some sympathy with possible stress levels. But they're not. Obviously their IOM public service T&C's of over-manned, over-graded and thus over-paid jobs-for-life massive lump sums and very generously pensioned does grate on those in the private sector who have none of those bennies but nonetheless are all expected to pay for the teachers to have them... Add to that a union rep who behaves like there's a magic money tree and even reasonable people will take umbrage. Basically nobody likes to be ripped off.... More than 2 years you've been claiming things like the above, and more than 2 years I've been asking why there's such a shortage of teachers (and has been for quite some time) if the pay and conditions are so brilliant. I hope this doesn't continue until one of us dies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, HeliX said: More than 2 years you've been claiming things like the above, and more than 2 years I've been asking why there's such a shortage of teachers (and has been for quite some time) if the pay and conditions are so brilliant. I hope this doesn't continue until one of us dies. I've no problem whatsoever with teachers voting with their feet. Because I know they're on the greenest grass possible. And probably so do they... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheldon Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 23 minutes ago, HeliX said: Honestly this thread is pointless. It's just the same handful of people ignoring whatever statistics are put in front of them so they can continue to be angry at the imaginary work conditions they want to believe teachers have. It's all quite simple really: 1) The Police are all condescending fascists who abused their power during lockdowns 2) Nurses are all too busy filming TikTok videos to give a shit about patients 3) Teachers are all lazy oenophiles who earn £200 for every hour they actually work If you want to continue arguing with the MF intelligentsia in the face of these stark facts, knock yourself out 😉 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsdesk Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 31 minutes ago, HeliX said: Honestly this thread is pointless. It's just the same handful of people ignoring whatever statistics are put in front of them so they can continue to be angry at the imaginary work conditions they want to believe teachers have. You just think it’s pointless as you aren’t getting your own way 😉 Just like it must be irking a lot of teachers that the public aren’t generally backing them either. You just got one pay increase and now you’re after another. That’s the long and short of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asthehills Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 22 minutes ago, Harry Lamb said: This suggests 2 things: 1. You're jealous. 2. Your acceptance of these terms outs you as a mug. So wrong. I earn more than any teacher in the island. I work as much as I want to. If I didn’t enjoy my job I could trim my hours right back, or get another job somewhere else. I am two weeks away from collecting my latest fully expenses company vehicle which if I had to buy it would cost around 3 years if an average teachers salary. Why would I be jealous? I just resent their whining and innocent kids missing out because their incessant moaning and foot stamping. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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