Please Sir can I have more!!

[HeliX]

1 minute ago, Newsdesk said:

You certainly have a lot of time to spend hopelessly arguing on line. I really hope you aren’t a teacher 😉

Nice try at deflecting away from the apparently startling (to you) revelation that competition for jobs increases the quality of available candidates!

If I were a teacher someone would've noticed me fucking about on MF on my phone all through lessons by now.

[Asthehills]

22 minutes ago, HeliX said:

No, I'm saying that like any other sector, low wages reduces the number of people willing to do the job. If you're having to take basically anyone who applies because that's the sum total of the employee pool, then you are clearly not going to be able to be fussy over ability or qualifications. If there is competition for jobs, you can.

I really don’t get where you get “low wages” from

Teachers are not on low wages, especially when you look at their overall package but you and others seem hell bent on ignoring that.

Why do you think use of the phrase “”low wages” is justified?  There is a big difference between low, and lower than they would like.

[AcousticallyChallenged]

31 minutes ago, Newsdesk said:

Wether they are being well educated or not has nothing to do with pay awards. Unless you believe that teachers are deliberately providing a crap service as they don’t think they’re getting paid enough. Which would strangely validate everything everyone else has said in this thread about local teaching standards. 

You get what you pay for.

Many of the best candidates won't go into teaching for poor pay and conditions unless they are true educationalists. They might if the pay and conditions are reasonable.

[HeliX]

Just now, Asthehills said:

I really don’t get where you get “low wages” from

Teachers are not on low wages, especially when you look at their overall package but you and others seem hell bent on ignoring that.

Why do you think use of the phrase “”low wages” is justified?  There is a big difference between low, and lower than they would like.

Low compared to jobs requiring similar levels of qualification and work. If you're only going to consider what's written in the contracts as the "overall package" (particularly when considering hours of work etc) then we're going to struggle to reach any sort of accord. As is being ably demonstrated, teachers have not been working to their contracts until very recently.

If you mean the pension, I'd hazard a guess that most teachers (save for those over 50!) would prefer the pension to be lower and the pay higher. There's no value in having a decent pension if you can't afford to live on your salary.

[AcousticallyChallenged]

22 minutes ago, Newsdesk said:

But all new teachers have to be qualified to the same basic level so that makes no sense at all. You are suggesting that people can’t be bothered teaching properly because they believe they aren’t getting paid for it. Which probably explains why Ballakermeen and St Ninians are in such a state. 

A masters degree at University starts out teaching granny to suck eggs, because one university degree does not necessarily equate another, even in the same subject.

'Same basic level' can vary wildly.

[Asthehills]

12 minutes ago, HeliX said:

Nice try at deflecting away from the apparently startling (to you) revelation that competition for jobs increases the quality of available candidates!

If I were a teacher someone would've noticed me fucking about on MF on my phone all through lessons by now.

My kids are both at school.  The feedback is that in all likelihood nobody would have even noticed.

One got bussed to a lesson the other day at another school and when they got there the lesson was cancelled but nobody had told them.  They were sent to sit in an empty classroom for the whole morning with nothing to do.

 

[AcousticallyChallenged]

3 minutes ago, Asthehills said:

I really don’t get where you get “low wages” from

Teachers are not on low wages, especially when you look at their overall package but you and others seem hell bent on ignoring that.

Why do you think use of the phrase “”low wages” is justified?  There is a big difference between low, and lower than they would like.

Some unpaid leave and an average of 50 hours a week https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teacher-workload-cut-by-five-hours-a-week-over-past-three-years? Cracking package that. Why aren't we all doing that?

Lower than is competitive for their skillset. Does that phrasing suit you better?

[HeliX]

1 minute ago, Asthehills said:

My kids are both at school.  The feedback is that in all likelihood nobody would have even noticed.

One got bussed to a lesson the other day at another school and when they got there the lesson was cancelled but nobody had told them.  They were sent to sit in an empty classroom for the whole morning with nothing to do.

The high number of non-teaching DESC staff is evidently helping to provide a smooth and joined-up service then...

[HeliX]

1 minute ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

Some unpaid leave and an average of 50 hours a week https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teacher-workload-cut-by-five-hours-a-week-over-past-three-years? Cracking package that. Why aren't we all doing that?

Lower than is competitive for their skillset. Does that phrasing suit you better?

And the result of that is that you end up with only two types of teachers; those who are incapable of doing anything else (but have been hired because there's a shortage), and those who care about teaching children. And they'll be paid the same. Which won't make the latter group feel particularly valued...

[Asthehills]

Just now, HeliX said:

The high number of non-teaching DESC staff is evidently helping to provide a smooth and joined-up service then...

Most of those extra staff are doing things teachers used to do when they actually cared about kids.

When I was at school there was head, deputy head, lab technicians and a handful of admin staff plus the teachers.

Now they have pastoral care, classroom assistants and loads of other nonsense

 

[AcousticallyChallenged]

Just now, HeliX said:

And the result of that is that you end up with only two types of teachers; those who are incapable of doing anything else (but have been hired because there's a shortage), and those who care about teaching children. And they'll be paid the same. Which won't make the latter group feel particularly valued...

There are some teachers who end up teaching because those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

And they paint the good ones in a poor light even further for that reason.

[HeliX]

Just now, Asthehills said:

Most of those extra staff are doing things teachers used to do when they actually cared about kids.

When I was at school there was head, deputy head, lab technicians and a handful of admin staff plus the teachers.

Now they have pastoral care, classroom assistants and loads of other nonsense

Teachers have more duties now, not less. And far more forms to fill out etc. The extra in-school staff also deliver things like actually providing extra care for those kids who are struggling/have extra needs, rather than just letting them fail in regular classes.

[P.K.]

5 minutes ago, HeliX said:

The high number of non-teaching DESC staff is evidently helping to provide a smooth and joined-up service then...

I'm wondering what extra responsibilities the DESC has taken on to justify the increase in staff?

I hope there are some classroom assistants because they are invaluable in the way they do 1-to-1 teaching for those who need the extra tuition.

[HeliX]

1 minute ago, P.K. said:

I'm wondering what extra responsibilities the DESC has taken on to justify the increase in staff?

I hope there are some classroom assistants because they are invaluable in the way they do 1-to-1 teaching for those who need the extra tuition.

Jobs for the boys would be my assumption. All of our Govt departments are an outrageous size for the service they provide.

[Happier diner]

4 minutes ago, P.K. said:

I'm wondering what extra responsibilities the DESC has taken on to justify the increase in staff?

I hope there are some classroom assistants because they are invaluable in the way they do 1-to-1 teaching for those who need the extra tuition.

Classroom assistants are not qualified to teach. They can only supervise activities. Only teachers can teach. Clue is in the job titles.

Classroom assistants do a good job though.