Please Sir can I have more!!

[Moghrey Mie]

2 hours ago, Asthehills said:

How does the number of DESC staff employed in relation to the number of kids under 18 stack up compared to the UK and specifically London Fringe?

I would put money on our staff to child ratio being way higher than UK

The trouble is the numbers include people who are not actually working in classrooms. So staff to pupil ratio can look good.

[DrunkenMonkey]

2 hours ago, Banker said:

They said they didn’t need to as bad approval to strike action previously, using same arguments as RMT/CWU etc ie don’t ask the members about new offers!!

From the same article you linked previously:

"The strikes have been called after NASUWT members overwhelmingly (74% of respondents) rejected the government’s latest revised pay offer. "

https://gef.im/2022/11/03/six-days-of-strikes-planned-as-union-blames-gov/

 

You have no evidence that teachers were not consulted about the latest pay offer because there is no evidence. Stop lying!

[Newbie]

59 minutes ago, Banker said:

Despite the NASUWT's rejection of the 8% pay rise offer, it has been accepted by the National Education Union (NEU).

A spokeswoman for that union said 77% of its membership of more than 350 teachers were in favour of accepting the Department of Education Sport and Culture's (DESC) offer for the 2022-2023 year.

Thanks. So significantly smaller in number than the NASUWT.

I suppose what is worth remembering is that this dispute started several years ago, before Covid, and before the current financial situation. Then (and now) the concern was the erosion of real terms pay over many years. Recent events have doubtless not helped the teachers cause, but were the NASUWT to accept an 8% pay rise now (i.e a further 2% pay cut in real terms), without any agreement on future years' settlements, what happens then? It is a pound to a pinch of salt that next year they would be told by government that as they had had 8% last year, there will be a pay freeze. Do they threaten industrial action again then? The optics would be very bad, and it will probably be several years before they managed to get the momentum that they currently have in their membership. So in effect they would be giving up on their original claims which are what started the dispute in the first place.

Why the NEU have accepted the offer I don't know. Perhaps their membership is less militant? Perhaps their members are more senior and are not struggling as much financially? Who knows, but there isn't anything intrinsically wrong with a Union standing up for its members rights.

[Banker]

14 minutes ago, DrunkenMonkey said:

From the same article you linked previously:

"The strikes have been called after NASUWT members overwhelmingly (74% of respondents) rejected the government’s latest revised pay offer. "

https://gef.im/2022/11/03/six-days-of-strikes-planned-as-union-blames-gov/

 

You have no evidence that teachers were not consulted about the latest pay offer because there is no evidence. Stop lying!

They’ve already said they haven’t consulted on new offer you buffoon

[Asthehills]

1 minute ago, Banker said:

They’ve already said they haven’t consulted on new offer you buffoon

Confirmed by a friend who is a member, and who is incidentally looking into how he leaves as he no longer wants to be associated with their nonsense 

[Newbie]

2 minutes ago, Banker said:

They’ve already said they haven’t consulted on new offer you buffoon

Where/when did they say that?

[DrunkenMonkey]

17 minutes ago, Banker said:

They’ve already said they haven’t consulted on new offer you buffoon

What evidence do you have that a new offer has been made?

[Newbie]

22 minutes ago, Asthehills said:

Confirmed by a friend who is a member, and who is incidentally looking into how he leaves as he no longer wants to be associated with their nonsense 

Who knows how it will play out, but will he still be saying that if the NASUWT were able to achieve a better multi-year settlement, and would he refuse to accept any additional benefits that they might achieve?

[Banker]

Average £46k for 30 periods per week 

 

[Newbie]

18 minutes ago, Banker said:

Average £46k for 30 periods per week 

 

So you are using 'average' to mean maximum? Ms Edge was quite clear that under the new proposed deal (rather than the old one) that 46k was the maximum pay (unless additional responsibilities/work were taken on)

Edited November 7, 2022 by Newbie
Also interesting that only one of the 5 teaching unions has so far accepted the proposal

[Asthehills]

32 minutes ago, Newbie said:

Who knows how it will play out, but will he still be saying that if the NASUWT were able to achieve a better multi-year settlement, and would he refuse to accept any additional benefits that they might achieve?

Yes.  He is sick of them and wants to joint one of the other unions who are perfectly happy with what has been proposed

[John Wright]

48 minutes ago, Banker said:

Average £46k for 30 periods per week 

 

Your anti teaching moaning is no different to how most people see bankers or building society workers.

Branches only used to open 09.30 to 15.30. 

But just like teachers, teaching, pupil engagement, accepting and dispensing cash and other counter services were, and are, the tip of the iceberg.

[Meoir Shee]

2 hours ago, Banker said:

Average £46k for 30 periods per week 

That is a really interesting way of thinking about it, one I hadn’t considered before.  Using your own figures, a bit high maybe but we’ll run with them:

£46k per annum

39 teaching weeks

30 lessons (hours?) per week

c20 pupils per class on average?  (Guesstimate)

= £1.97 per pupil per hour in ‘teacher cost’, call it £2 for easy reckoning.  I know there are on costs etc but let’s keep it simple.

As a modern, western, developed society is roughly £2 per pupil per hour good or bad value?

[Banker]

14 minutes ago, Meoir Shee said:

That is a really interesting way of thinking about it, one I hadn’t considered before.  Using your own figures, a bit high maybe but we’ll run with them:

£46k per annum

39 teaching weeks

30 lessons (hours?) per week

c20 pupils per class on average?  (Guesstimate)

= £1.97 per pupil per hour in ‘teacher cost’, call it £2 for easy reckoning.  I know there are on costs etc but let’s keep it simple.

As a modern, western, developed society is roughly £2 per pupil per hour good or bad value?

Or put in another way £36 per hour working only 195 days per year , a maximum of 6.48 hours per day

Teachers can be directed by the headteacher to work for up to a maximum of 1,265 hours over 195 days of the year.

[Meoir Shee]

19 minutes ago, Banker said:

Or put in another way £36 per hour working only 195 days per year , a maximum of 6.48 hours per day

Teachers can be directed by the headteacher to work for up to a maximum of 1,265 hours over 195 days of the year.

OK, £36 per hour to look after and teach c20 kids, call it £2 per pupil per hour.  Is that too much?  Too little?  About right?  What can you actually get for £2, half a lager?