Meoir Shee Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 6 minutes ago, Asthehills said: Ok. Try this one. What do you value an hour of treatment from someone who has been working 50 hours a week at 02:30 in the morning at. In ICU? OK, we’ve been here before. I have explained to you that any comparison whatsoever with the nursing profession is entirely invalid. The nursing labour market is completely broken, the RCN has balloted for strike action for the first time ever. Nurses are terribly underpaid and there are chronic shortages. Stop this constant race to the bottom. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asthehills Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 Just now, Meoir Shee said: OK, we’ve been here before. I have explained to you that any comparison whatsoever with the nursing profession is entirely invalid. The nursing labour market is completely broken, the RCN has balloted for strike action for the first time ever. Nurses are terribly underpaid and there are chronic shortages. Stop this constant race to the bottom. Is it a race to the bottom, or is it government paying people what is sustainable without having to bang everyone’s taxes up? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meoir Shee Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 Just now, Asthehills said: Is it a race to the bottom, or is it government paying people what is sustainable without having to bang everyone’s taxes up? But the nursing labour market clearly isn’t sustainable. I’m struggling to understand your logic. Are you stupid? 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcousticallyChallenged Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 3 minutes ago, Asthehills said: Is it a race to the bottom, or is it government paying people what is sustainable without having to bang everyone’s taxes up? Or have they been paying as little as they can get away with for as long as they could get away with? 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asthehills Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 Just now, Meoir Shee said: But the nursing labour market clearly isn’t sustainable. I’m struggling to understand your logic. Are you stupid? The nursing market isn’t sustainable because when you look at the responsibility they have and the hours they work they should be earning twice what a teacher does, yet they earn less than the greedy teachers have just refused. No I am not stupid. I am realistic and I understand the fact that teachers are whining but actually better off than many others 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcousticallyChallenged Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 You can actually, if so inclined, find debates from 1961 where the resolution was to increase teachers pay by 18%. In 1963, teacher pay for 'men teachers' was £1,244, rising to £1,880 by 1970. Or about 30k in modern terms. With a £120, (2k in modern terms) pay rise each year guaranteed after that. Of course, at the time, the average house was £4000, whereas the average house now is £296,000. So twice the average teacher salary, whereas it's now more like 10x. https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1970/may/07/men-teachers-average-salary During the same period, lots of discussion about raising nurses salaries by 22% too.https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1970/mar/09/nurses-pay The whole present debate started around stagnation, DESC would've saved themselves a few quid and then some if they'd resolved teacher pay sooner. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcousticallyChallenged Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 10 minutes ago, Asthehills said: The nursing market isn’t sustainable because when you look at the responsibility they have and the hours they work they should be earning twice what a teacher does, yet they earn less than the greedy teachers have just refused. No I am not stupid. I am realistic and I understand the fact that teachers are whining but actually better off than many others A claim before has boiled down to 'if we give teachers pay rises, we'll have to give nurses and firefighters rises too'. Would that be such an awful precedent to therefore set? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 10 minutes ago, Asthehills said: The nursing market isn’t sustainable because when you look at the responsibility they have and the hours they work they should be earning twice what a teacher does, yet they earn less than the greedy teachers have just refused. So will you be supporting them if they go on strike for the 17% they are asking for? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcousticallyChallenged Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 Just now, Newbie said: So will you be supporting them if they go on strike for the 17% they are asking for? No, we'll just hear grumbling about how the private sector would never entertain the idea. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asthehills Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said: A claim before has boiled down to 'if we give teachers pay rises, we'll have to give nurses and firefighters rises too'. Would that be such an awful precedent to therefore set? No, but then the point that many are missing is that it has to be affordable and sustainable without throwing the entire labour market into a situation where everyone on less than 60k wanted a massive pay rise. People need to try and understand the implications of doing that overnight. However I fear the teachers and their supporters are unable to look at the bigger picture. If teachers get a 30percent raise then shop workers and plumbers will expect the same. Who pays for it? Then guess what, the teachers 30 percent extra is worth nothing as prices everywhere have gone up Edited November 7, 2022 by Asthehills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meoir Shee Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 7 minutes ago, Asthehills said: The nursing market isn’t sustainable because when you look at the responsibility they have and the hours they work they should be earning twice what a teacher does, yet they earn less than the greedy teachers have just refused. No I am not stupid. I am realistic and I understand the fact that teachers are whining but actually better off than many others I apologise for using the term stupid. I simply cannot understand why you constantly feel the need to make comparisons between teaching, which has got major problems, and nursing, which is completely broken. I don’t think anyone denies nurses have a lot of responsibility, whether that is greater or less than a teacher is open to debate and you clearly have your own views. You used the extreme example of an ICU nurse working at 2.30am, a typical tactic but not fully representative of the role. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asthehills Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 3 minutes ago, Newbie said: So will you be supporting them if they go on strike for the 17% they are asking for? Yes. Compared to teachers they are hugely underpaid. I do however doubt that they would ever be short sighted enough to think that a strike is the right course of action. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asthehills Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 4 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said: No, we'll just hear grumbling about how the private sector would never entertain the idea. Wrong. Read the post I made before I read this one 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BriT Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Asthehills said: Wrong. Read the post I made before I read this one How long is tonight’s rage and false fact checking going to be? I might have to open a beer. Edited November 7, 2022 by BriT 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcousticallyChallenged Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 1 minute ago, Asthehills said: If teachers get a 30percent raise then shop workers and plumbers will expect the same. Who pays for it? Then guess what, the teachers 30 percent extra is worth nothing as prices everywhere have gone up Have you seen the price of pretty much anything at the moment? The price rises have already come. The cost and scarcity of plumbers and other trades is already here too. Lots of money to be made if you can do one. You're buggered if you're paying for work to be done though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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