Please Sir can I have more!!

[Asthehills]

49 minutes ago, Itsmeee said:

Can I just point out that:

1) Many low grade civil servants do not get paid overtime or even get paid for extra hours they might do. And many go above and beyond and work extra hours every week to make sure stuff gets done. 

2) Many senior civil servants are not on contracts that pay overtime or enable them to even claim standard rate for extra hours and are unable to take the TOIL they have accrued due to the pressure of work.

3) Civil and public servants are tax payers too.

 

 

Yep.

It happens everywhere.  It’s just one particular teaching Union that is unable to accept that and is kicking up a fuss.

Can I also point out that if people can’t afford a house right out of uni, some decide to work seconds jobs and save up that way.

[HeliX]

2 minutes ago, P.K. said:

Who says that's fine?

Thatcher's privatisation of the Water lot has been a total disaster for everyone except the shareholders.

The German gov are taking control of the country's biggest energy supplier Uniper. That's how to do it.

Nobody is saying "if we continue to give huge bonuses inflation will rise" but suddenly if it goes to the workers instead it's a problem.

[x-in-man]

Just a quick point - 

The entire KS3 cohort in these effected schools are now just starting Key stage 4.  None of them would have had an entire school year in secondary school without interruption. o

Quite how the union, it's representative and their members can live with that is quite frankly an insult to everyone family on the island.

[Banker]

1 hour ago, Non-Believer said:

Well, the local branch of at least one PS union has just rejected this year's pay offer following balloting of members.

Turned down 4% , of course what PS don’t take into account is their final salary pension schemes not available to most people in private sector & PS their pensioner’s will get c10% next year as no cap on pension increases.

Also all PS pay & pension rises have to be paid for by taxpayers, perhaps we should start charging for schooling & health?

[Asthehills]

2 minutes ago, Roxanne said:

So, without a pay increase, what would you suggest we do that would encourage teachers to come here and take up employment on a full time basis to avoid us (tax payers) having to pay inflated daily rates to teachers friend from the (extremely limited) supply list. I mean, they’re hardly going to move here for the climate. What action would you take to ensure an adequate cover of staff.

As has been said before, if it was such an attractive package that you and others say exists, then why don’t we have a huge waiting list of teachers wanting the sign up. 
 

As has been said before, so we have a huge waiting list of people waiting to sign up for any jobs?  Even 40k a year office roles can’t attract decent staff.

Re the teachers rather than pay increases which will artificially inflate their salary over nurses, and all other professions I would look at an overall package to help people relocating here into any industry or locals returning from uni with their first few years of accommodation via a government bond or attractive mortgage scheme etc.

I don’t believe one industry shouting louder than everyone else getting a rise is the way to fix things as you then just price nurses etc out of the housing market.

It needs to be part of an overall scheme to attract and retain staff island wide.  Not just an uplift for teachers

[Ham_N_Eggs]

2 minutes ago, Banker said:

Turned down 4% , of course what PS don’t take into account is their final salary pension schemes not available to most people in private sector & PS their pensioner’s will get c10% next year as no cap on pension increases.

Also all PS pay & pension rises have to be paid for by taxpayers, perhaps we should start charging for schooling & health?

That such a poor arguement. Maybe if the Government started dealing with the unions earlier then they would have had a pay deal in place before the budget and before inflation went crazy but they didn't. It's not a surprise it was rejected. If you had the choice would you take a real terms pay cut?

If you don't have a choice in your current workplace then join a union.

[Asthehills]

8 minutes ago, Roxanne said:

So, without a pay increase, what would you suggest we do that would encourage teachers to come here and take up employment on a full time basis to avoid us (tax payers) having to pay inflated daily rates to teachers friend from the (extremely limited) supply list. I mean, they’re hardly going to move here for the climate. What action would you take to ensure an adequate cover of staff.

As has been said before, if it was such an attractive package that you and others say exists, then why don’t we have a huge waiting list of teachers wanting the sign up. 
 

Ps.  I didn’t say it was an attractive package.  I said it was realistic and in line with other industries who are also struggling to attract and retain staff. 

[Asthehills]

1 minute ago, Ham_N_Eggs said:

If you had the choice would you take a real terms pay cut?

Really?  That is exactly what most people have been doing and will continue to do.  I really don’t get people who seem to think it’s unusual in this climate.

[HeliX]

15 minutes ago, x-in-man said:

Just a quick point - 

The entire KS3 cohort in these effected schools are now just starting Key stage 4.  None of them would have had an entire school year in secondary school without interruption. o

Quite how the union, it's representative and their members can live with that is quite frankly an insult to everyone family on the island.

Is the DESCs response to Covid somehow the teachers' or unions' fault?

[Banker]

11 minutes ago, Roxanne said:

So, without a pay increase, what would you suggest we do that would encourage teachers to come here and take up employment on a full time basis to avoid us (tax payers) having to pay inflated daily rates to teachers friend from the (extremely limited) supply list. I mean, they’re hardly going to move here for the climate. What action would you take to ensure an adequate cover of staff.

As has been said before, if it was such an attractive package that you and others say exists, then why don’t we have a huge waiting list of teachers wanting the sign up. 
 

They’ve had a pay rise of between 2-7.6% with the lowest paid getting the most & backdated to September 2021 , this was accepted by majority of unions.

They are due another rise to be discussed shortly but can’t wait to disrupt kids again after having their 7 weeks holidays & many extra months off on full pay over lockdown.

https://www.gov.im/news/2022/sep/20/department-of-education-sport-and-culture-statement-on-nasuwt-industrial-action/

 

[Asthehills]

Copy and pasted from yesterdays release then it that really makes me fail to understand what more they expect DESC to do in the very short term or what their action will achieve.

The next steps are there in black and white.  If they don’t follow through with them then take action if you want. But why now?

”

This arrangement was set against a backdrop of a pay freeze for UK teachers in 2021, however, the Department sought to find the best way to recognise and reward the hard work and dedication of the Island’s teachers and lecturers. In addition, in July, it was recommended that teachers across the UK would benefit from pay increases of between 5% and 8.9% from September 2022.

This proposal is due to be verified at the end of the month, as the UK Government fully accepted pay recommendations from the independent School Teachers Review Body (STRB) for the next academic year.

Pay talks with all recognised teaching unions will commence once the School Teachers' Pay and Conditions Document (STPCD) has been ratified following these recommendations. These pay talks are currently scheduled for October.

In light of the above, the Department is unsure as to what the continued escalation at this point will achieve and is concerned that without appropriate cover at break times, the safety of students will be put at risk and schools could have to take the necessary action, including sending year groups home.

[Asthehills]

13 minutes ago, Roxanne said:

But this already happens doesn't it?

How about instead you suggest some ideas for keeping the staff we already have - without a pay increase.

I did.  Help them with housing costs which seems to be the main issue the Union keep raising and which obviously applies to everyone 

[x-in-man]

28 minutes ago, HeliX said:

Is the DESCs response to Covid somehow the teachers' or unions' fault?

Did I say it could be?  Simply that after all that they still seek to extend the lack of a decent education for a longer period headed by some failed MHK candidate with an obvious axe to grind when it come to educating the island's kids.  The union she uses her ear splitting voice for has lost so many members since she took over - I'm surprised there are enough in it to play a decent game of cards these days.

[HeliX]

40 minutes ago, x-in-man said:

Simply that after all that they still seek to extend the lack of a decent education for a longer period

No they don't. They seek to have their pay/conditions improved. If teachers working to their contract damages children's education then teaching contracts aren't fit for purpose.

[Asthehills]

59 minutes ago, Roxanne said:

But this already happens doesn't it?

How about instead you suggest some ideas for keeping the staff we already have - without a pay increase.

Who is to say they won’t get a pay increase anyway?

DESC have clearly stated they will resume talks after the UK determine if there is any increase (figures of up to 8% have been mentioned) or not, which will be next month.

Its there in black and white and it would be pointless then agreeing anything with that just around the corner, yet they are stamping their feet.

I am still waiting for someone to explain what isn’t covered int he government release from yesterday and what action this next few weeks achieves.