More uselessness from DBC

[2bees]

2 minutes ago, Passing Time said:

Except it's not "most people's beef" is it? just a few noisy people.

I haven’t heard many people saying “DTC did a really good job of implementing the weekly bin collection and have addressed rate payers concerns admirably”. 
I was totally fine with it all, until they started spewing lies and taking bins away. How is that acceptable?

[NoTailT]

1 hour ago, The Bastard said:

I'm not going to get involved in personal abuse of the personalities involved - that's totally the wrong tack to take since the arguments here are with policy, not with people. 

That being said, DBC seem to have lost sight of their core functions. It was said at the start of all this that fly-tipping and waste burning would be the result, and we're not far away from it. Ratepayers are paying customers, not children to be lectured. 

DBC don't accept that not every household is on-board with recycling, and that it's an elective choice. Personally I support it, but I recognise that not everyone does.  Where people don't have the means to get to the Civic Amenity site, you'd have thought that a few individuals dropping a bagload of rubbish in the litter bins would be more acceptable than it ending up in someone else's bin, or dumped somewhere. 

It seems to have gone off the deep end though - we now have the bin Stasi going through the rubbish to "identify the household responsible" and even removing the fucking bins as a collective punishment on the community. That's just an admission that the policy has failed, or been so badly introduced that it's failed in spite of the benefits it could have introduced.

The message this gives to the less-ethical is - find an alternative.

That means kids dropping litter. Households fly-tipping, burning their own waste. 

All of this because DBC won't climb down, or admit that they could retry this another time with a better implementation plan that gets people on board, rather than beating them over the head.

Possibly the best summary of the whole debacle.

[Viddy well]

If it is truly a very small minority who are struggling then spare them the indignity of the bin police and just give them all a second bin for now, until you can understand their particular circumstances properly.

As a tiny minority, that won’t even dent your Great Leap Forward to 15% recycling because that’s being achieved by the contented 99% on fortnightly collections.

Set up an email link called “I need a second bin” and trust that only the 1% who genuinely need it will use it and the contented majority of supporters won’t.

 

[Sheldon]

20 minutes ago, Viddy well said:

Set up an email link called “I need a second bin” and trust that only the 1% who genuinely need it will use it and the contented majority of supporters won’t.

In like fashion, DON'T post passive-aggressive notes in a big red font through the letterboxes of people who already have two bins, having purchased an additional one from the council in good faith previously, telling them that their existing arrangement will no longer be honoured. 

[CallMeCurious]

4 hours ago, Steady Eddie said:

Brilliant. They’ll have people trying to drop their neighbours in the crap and all sorts of fun and games trying to prove it all. I can see a challenge coming up. 

The law of unintended consequences.

[CallMeCurious]

7 hours ago, 2bees said:

Is this the right thread to talk about Douglas bins? I was happy, didn’t mind two weekly collections, had set two weekly reminders, one for recycling and one for t’other bins, life was great. But then “people are abusing the bin men” “people are putting domestic rubbish in litter bins, we’re taking the bins away” - hold on… you’re doing what? Taking the fucking bins away? Douglas council are off their heads. No one has abused the bin men, this is absolute garbage, who would do that? That’s like telling the milk man off because the price of milk has gone up, nooo clowncil, you’re liars and imbeciles. 

Self serving, self important, inflated ego and that woman… who even are you? Leader of the clowns - well done! Anyway, not to put too fine a point on it, I’m no longer happy and will support any protests Douglas residents wish to cause/make! 

Standard pysop "Staff getting abused" and yet no proof.

DBC logic ~ "People putting rubbish in the bins! Removes bins. Problem solved"

[Steady Eddie]

5 minutes ago, CallMeCurious said:

The law of unintended consequences.

I agree stupid petty rules breed equally stupid petty behaviour. . 

[code99]

5 hours ago, Amadeus said:

The two also spent a lot of time preparing for this and genuinely listened.

Sorry to say it but this makes the whole situation even worse.

I totally get that the councillors are doing the LA work essentially in their spare time, and that a lot of what they do goes unappreciated (but someone has to do this work and they stood for elections). In their ‘real’ lives these people all have ‘real’ jobs, and most of them are well regarded professional people.

IMHO however, this rubbish collection fiasco is something that Year 11 students could have done as a school project, and indeed made a better job of than these professionals. Everything about this 'project' has been embarrassingly amateurish and poorly executed - from the initial communications to the actual (partial) implementation. To me it suggests that at least some of the councillors are lacking the skills and aptitude necessary for working with/ in this community and perhaps they should resign.

That said, it is almost Christmas and it is probably time to chill out a while and forget about bins and think about other more important things; like other much less fortunate human beings living in multiple other places on the planet who would be prepared to risk everything, even their own lives, to be able to live in a place like the Isle of Man, which if you think about it, even with its ‘incompetents’, isn’t such a bad place to live.

Cheers everyone.  

[Amadeus]

13 minutes ago, CallMeCurious said:

Standard pysop "Staff getting abused" and yet no proof.

Sorry what exactly do you expect? Bodycam footage? You strike me as the type of person who shouts at the screen when you read the news. 

[Amadeus]

2 minutes ago, code99 said:

Sorry to say it but this makes the whole situation even worse.

I totally get that the councillors are doing the LA work essentially in their spare time, and that a lot of what they do goes unappreciated (but someone has to do this work and they stood for elections). In their ‘real’ lives these people all have ‘real’ jobs, and most of them are well regarded professional people.

IMHO however, this rubbish collection fiasco is something that Year 11 students could have done as a school project, and indeed made a better job of than these professionals. Everything about this 'project' has been embarrassingly amateurish and poorly executed - from the initial communications to the actual (partial) implementation. To me it suggests that at least some of the councillors are lacking the skills and aptitude necessary for working with/ in this community and perhaps they should resign.

That said, it is almost Christmas and it is probably time to chill out a while and forget about bins and think about other more important things; like other much less fortunate human beings living in multiple other places on the planet who would be prepared to risk everything, even their own lives, to be able to live in a place like the Isle of Man, which if you think about it, even with its ‘incompetents’, isn’t such a bad place to live.

Cheers everyone.  

The fact the vast majority of people knew about the changes and adjusted accordingly suggests otherwise. Teething problems were expected and at the risk of repeating myself for the 132nd time, assistance is available for anyone who thinks they need help. Don’t let that stop you from sniping from the sidelines though. 

[Manxieover65]

10 minutes ago, Amadeus said:

The fact the vast majority of people knew about the changes and adjusted accordingly suggests otherwise. Teething problems were expected and at the risk of repeating myself for the 132nd time, assistance is available for anyone who thinks they need help. Don’t let that stop you from sniping from the sidelines though. 

Assistance isn't available.  They say it is , yet they don't help at all . They are also stepping well beyond their remit and actually trying to force peoples behaviours (Falk's words not mine) which is well beyond what they should be doing . 

Also found out today they provide a weekly service to Santon which is obviously a better service than their own ratepayers get . They also do so at a clear loss for the ratepayers.  I know the figures as do others and there's no way they make money on the hourly rate they charge Santon . If I'm wrong Frank feel free to post on your twitter the figures . 

You lot are utterly insane 

[Sheldon]

8 hours ago, 2bees said:

that woman… who even are you? Leader of the clowns - well done! 

Nope, not seeing the resemblance there at all, sorry.

[quilp]

45 minutes ago, Amadeus said:

The fact the vast majority of people knew about the changes and adjusted accordingly suggests otherwise. Teething problems were expected and at the risk of repeating myself for the 132nd time, assistance is available for anyone who thinks they need help. Don’t let that stop you from sniping from the sidelines though. 

You'd better tell Walter then @Amadeus A local political heavyweight just got his cudgels out...

https://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/mhk-hits-out-at-councils-decision-to-remove-litter-bins-584663

 

[Roger Mexico]

1 hour ago, code99 said:

IMHO however, this rubbish collection fiasco is something that Year 11 students could have done as a school project, and indeed made a better job of than these professionals. Everything about this 'project' has been embarrassingly amateurish and poorly executed - from the initial communications to the actual (partial) implementation. To me it suggests that at least some of the councillors are lacking the skills and aptitude necessary for working with/ in this community and perhaps they should resign.

But none of these things are the councillors' 'jobs'.  They're supposed to decide policy and explain the reasons for it, not decide on and personally implement every detail of how that policy is carried out.  That's all the job of the officers, especially the more senior ones.  The fact that councillors are actually having to do the job of communication and sorting out details suggests the failure lies with those and the invisibility from those 20-odd 'leadership' staff on £50k+ makes you wonder exactly what it is they do with their time.

So saying the councillors aren't up to the job is hardly fair - especially given most of them are fairly new to the job - nearly all of the old guard went in the last six years or so.  They're working within the restrictions and rules they inherited and I think they should be doing more to try to change them, but it's not easy and it can't be done quickly.

There's actually been a lot of useful criticism made on here about how this policy has been brought in and what could be done to improve things.  And the problems don't just lie with DBC, an awful lot of them arise from the lack of a coherent and consistent waste disposal policy at the level this should be decided - IOMG.  But the useful comments have been drowned out by screeching denunciations and personal attacks. Far too often commentary on Manx Forums seems to be sum up as "Everything is shit and we will attack anyone who tries to change it".

[Jarndyce]

1 hour ago, code99 said:

it is almost Christmas and it is probably time to chill out a while and forget about bins and think about other more important things; like other much less fortunate human beings living in multiple other places on the planet who would be prepared to risk everything, even their own lives, to be able to live in a place like the Isle of Man, which if you think about it, even with its ‘incompetents’, isn’t such a bad place to live.

Cheers everyone.

This.   With bells on.

Merry Christmas! 🥃

Edited December 23, 2022 by Jarndyce
Festive addition