Manxieover65 Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Amadeus said: Sorry what exactly do you expect? Bodycam footage? You strike me as the type of person who shouts at the screen when you read the news. You absolutely concocted that story to spin it too the media and make people who don't like your dictatorship ways to look like hooligans . Literally didnt happen . Still waiting for the figures on what us the ratepayers gain on you giving Santon ratepayers proper weekly services though speaking to the media myself at the moment 🤗 with proof it's pretty much a loss for us 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTailT Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 1 hour ago, quilp said: You'd better tell Walter then @Amadeus A local political heavyweight just got his cudgels out... https://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/mhk-hits-out-at-councils-decision-to-remove-litter-bins-584663 Idiots in the council use this quote to make Ashford seem like a hypocrite. The quote is very much right, I’m sure everyone would love to recycle more if they could, but it’s not a counter to the current situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viddy well Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 (edited) I have itemized the mission statements of the councillors who voted in favour of these changes. I hope you draw the same comfort I have from reading them. "I pledge to be accessible and approachable and to serve the ratepayers of Athol Ward and the Borough of Douglas with integrity and honesty, listening, hearing and responding to local issues brought to my attention." "I would like to perform my duties as a Douglas Councillor with integrity, challenging decisions I feel do not benefit Douglas residents and help make Douglas a thriving community for the Isle of Man." "I am delighted to have the opportunity to represent the residents of Douglas Central. My mission is to build strong, happy and inclusive communities. I believe this can be achieved by empowering the people of Douglas through recognition and communication, to identify what each localised community needs. I pledge to be approachable, available, considerate and accountable - have a query, please don’t hesitate to get in touch with me." "My mission is to listen and respond to the issues that matter to the people of Douglas; to encourage leaner, more entrepreneurial ways of working; to support town centre regeneration and campaign for new and enhanced leisure amenities for our town." "My values are sustainability, inclusivity and design quality. These will be the values that inform my contribution to Council debate. I believe that Douglas must aspire to be a capital the Isle of Man deserves and can be proud of." "To represent the people of Victoria Ward and Douglas to my best ability, utilising my 35 years’ experience of working for the Council, in continuing to deliver quality, cost effective services within a reasonable level of rating whilst continuing the efforts to improve environmental quality and regeneration in order to bring investment into the Borough for a brighter and sustainable future. " "The prosperity and wealth of the Isle of Man is dependent on the workers, tenants, families and small businesses of Douglas. The residents of our town deserve an innovative government capable of delivering expanded and improved public services. Democracy on the Isle of Man was built on a council that held the central government accountable, that role must be reclaimed. " "My mission is to champion economic development for our town, provide links for a vibrant community and enhance our natural heritage. It is essential to improve Douglas's cost efficiency in supplying a wide spectrum of public services. Transparent decision making strengthens the council's accountability and helps to engage the people of Douglas." "In all that I do to serve the people of Douglas I pledge to uphold my life-long commitment to equality, transparency, openness and mutual respect." "It is an honour to be serving the people of Douglas. I will strive to improve and promote a good quality of life for all the town’s residents, to deliver value-for-money and challenge anything I think is not right for the town and its residents. I will work to improve the town’s infrastructure and facilities to make Douglas a better and more exciting place to work and live and I will do this with integrity, honesty and accountability." "To serve the residents of Douglas with integrity, honesty and the desire to create an affordable and healthy future for our town. " Edited December 23, 2022 by Viddy well 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTailT Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 32 minutes ago, Viddy well said: I have itemized the mission statements of the councillors who voted in favour of these changes. I hope you draw the same comfort I have from reading them. "I pledge to be accessible and approachable and to serve the ratepayers of Athol Ward and the Borough of Douglas with integrity and honesty, listening, hearing and responding to local issues brought to my attention." "I would like to perform my duties as a Douglas Councillor with integrity, challenging decisions I feel do not benefit Douglas residents and help make Douglas a thriving community for the Isle of Man." "I am delighted to have the opportunity to represent the residents of Douglas Central. My mission is to build strong, happy and inclusive communities. I believe this can be achieved by empowering the people of Douglas through recognition and communication, to identify what each localised community needs. I pledge to be approachable, available, considerate and accountable - have a query, please don’t hesitate to get in touch with me." "My mission is to listen and respond to the issues that matter to the people of Douglas; to encourage leaner, more entrepreneurial ways of working; to support town centre regeneration and campaign for new and enhanced leisure amenities for our town." "My values are sustainability, inclusivity and design quality. These will be the values that inform my contribution to Council debate. I believe that Douglas must aspire to be a capital the Isle of Man deserves and can be proud of." "To represent the people of Victoria Ward and Douglas to my best ability, utilising my 35 years’ experience of working for the Council, in continuing to deliver quality, cost effective services within a reasonable level of rating whilst continuing the efforts to improve environmental quality and regeneration in order to bring investment into the Borough for a brighter and sustainable future. " "The prosperity and wealth of the Isle of Man is dependent on the workers, tenants, families and small businesses of Douglas. The residents of our town deserve an innovative government capable of delivering expanded and improved public services. Democracy on the Isle of Man was built on a council that held the central government accountable, that role must be reclaimed. " "My mission is to champion economic development for our town, provide links for a vibrant community and enhance our natural heritage. It is essential to improve Douglas's cost efficiency in supplying a wide spectrum of public services. Transparent decision making strengthens the council's accountability and helps to engage the people of Douglas." "In all that I do to serve the people of Douglas I pledge to uphold my life-long commitment to equality, transparency, openness and mutual respect." "It is an honour to be serving the people of Douglas. I will strive to improve and promote a good quality of life for all the town’s residents, to deliver value-for-money and challenge anything I think is not right for the town and its residents. I will work to improve the town’s infrastructure and facilities to make Douglas a better and more exciting place to work and live and I will do this with integrity, honesty and accountability." "To serve the residents of Douglas with integrity, honesty and the desire to create an affordable and healthy future for our town. " It’s Christmas, go for a pint. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
code99 Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 2 hours ago, Roger Mexico said: But none of these things are the councillors' 'jobs'. They're supposed to decide policy and explain the reasons for it, not decide on and personally implement every detail of how that policy is carried out. That's all the job of the officers, especially the more senior ones. The fact that councillors are actually having to do the job of communication and sorting out details suggests the failure lies with those and the invisibility from those 20-odd 'leadership' staff on £50k+ makes you wonder exactly what it is they do with their time. So saying the councillors aren't up to the job is hardly fair - especially given most of them are fairly new to the job - nearly all of the old guard went in the last six years or so. They're working within the restrictions and rules they inherited and I think they should be doing more to try to change them, but it's not easy and it can't be done quickly. There's actually been a lot of useful criticism made on here about how this policy has been brought in and what could be done to improve things. And the problems don't just lie with DBC, an awful lot of them arise from the lack of a coherent and consistent waste disposal policy at the level this should be decided - IOMG. But the useful comments have been drowned out by screeching denunciations and personal attacks. Far too often commentary on Manx Forums seems to be sum up as "Everything is shit and we will attack anyone who tries to change it". I agree with you. My only caveat is that councillors are the political face of DBC and are therefore ultimately responsible to the people of Douglas. The public don’t elect the DBC jobsworths, just as in general elections we don’t vote for CS/PS. My view is that some councillors have adopted a tone with the ratepayers that is too combative. When something goes askew with DOI projects it is the Minister who publicly gets lambasted. Similarly, when cockups occur with rubbish collections, it is the councillors who take the blame, even though it is probably the highly paid senior DBC employees who failed to implement the plan properly. The fact that Claire and Falk spent a lot of time “preparing and genuinely listening” is good, but they also had to provide tangible leadership to DBC employees as well as supervision of the implementation. I am not suggesting that councillors must be involved in every minutia but they need to have a robust knowledge of what is going on, otherwise how can they meaningfully ‘serve’ the people of Douglas? If all they did was to sketch some vague aspirations on a back of a fag packet and to tell the DBC ‘do it’ then they were destined to have issues. IMHO, they should have been finding out where and how the mistakes were made throughout this process, and crucially finding solutions. E.g., I personally know residents who are unperturbed about the change to fortnightly rubbish collection but had to wait an eternity for their recycling bins. It seems to me that in a country with a population of 85,000 people it makes little economic sense that recycling behaviors in Douglas should be different to those in Peel, etc. IMHO, you are absolutely correct that it is the IOMG who needs to be providing a “coherent and consistent waste disposal policy” for the whole of the Island. I would go as far as to say that it should be Daphne Caine in her present role who is responsible for devising such policy/ contributes to its implementation. Merry Christmas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viddy well Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 On 10/11/2022 at 12:38 PM, Viddy well said: @Amadeus: * There was presumably a study that concluded that 100% generic black-bin waste would translate neatly into 50% recyclable waste and 50% other. Would it be possible to see a copy of that study and its conclusions? * There will have been an impact assessment made, that predicted the risks of the change and their mitigations. Can we see that? * Would it be possible to get a link to the public consultation that was conducted? * Would you be able to publish the guidance to householders that was issued (I was one of those who missed it)? Finally, would you be so kind as to indicate the names of the elected officials who proposed this reform (I'm not interested in those who supported it or voted for it, but those who brought it to the agenda) so that I can hold people to account in the next local elections? Thank you. Well I think I have the answers to all of these now. 1) There was no study that concluded that 100% generic black-bin waste would fit neatly into 50% recyclable waste and 50% other. 2) Impact assessment: The Council recognizes that the internal impact assessment it conducted was inferior to those done in the UK Isle of Man TV, video 2: 30:15 "Regarding the impact assessment, we have done an internal one...[Horning]" Isle of Man TV, video 2: 30:24 "A UK charity called WRAP has done studies far beyond anything the Council could do [Horning]" You will notice that WRAP's agenda of putting countries on track resembles the DBC's agenda of putting citizens on track. WRAP's agenda is: Putting more countries on track to halving food waste by 2030, in line with Sustainable Development Goal Target 12.3. Transforming the plastics economy so that plastic pollution will be eliminated. Helping tackle our throwaway clothing culture. Transforming recycling into a system that emphasizes material quality and markets. 3) There was no public consultation (despite the seemingly odd assertions of Manx Forums posters to the contrary). 4) The guidance to householders has not been reproduced on this forum, except that it may have been a picture of a Basking shark ingesting a plastic bottle, which seems to have passed some rate-payers by. Finally, it's become glaringly apparent that Councillors have no real ability to produce information from the organisation over which they have governance responsibilities. After three months, all I've had from Amadeus is excuses, devolving into pitiful defensive spasms designed to justify an obviously unmitigated disaster. I really can't tell you how disappointed I am. So I won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viddy well Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 22 minutes ago, NoTailT said: It’s Christmas, go for a pint. Ja Ja - I'm raising one to you too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 4 hours ago, quilp said: You'd better tell Walter then @Amadeus A local political heavyweight just got his cudgels out... https://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/mhk-hits-out-at-councils-decision-to-remove-litter-bins-584663 Quite disappointed by that and not sure what to make of it. You do know he was my election agent when I ran in 2006 right? Helped me with leaflets etc. He was also a supporter of the DBC recycling scheme that formed the basis for the move to fortnightly collections when he was in council. He changed since he got in up the road. I have temporarily removed his name from my Christmas card list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 5 hours ago, Roger Mexico said: But none of these things are the councillors' 'jobs'. They're supposed to decide policy and explain the reasons for it, not decide on and personally implement every detail of how that policy is carried out. That's all the job of the officers, especially the more senior ones. The fact that councillors are actually having to do the job of communication and sorting out details suggests the failure lies with those and the invisibility from those 20-odd 'leadership' staff on £50k+ makes you wonder exactly what it is they do with their time. So saying the councillors aren't up to the job is hardly fair - especially given most of them are fairly new to the job - nearly all of the old guard went in the last six years or so. They're working within the restrictions and rules they inherited and I think they should be doing more to try to change them, but it's not easy and it can't be done quickly. There's actually been a lot of useful criticism made on here about how this policy has been brought in and what could be done to improve things. And the problems don't just lie with DBC, an awful lot of them arise from the lack of a coherent and consistent waste disposal policy at the level this should be decided - IOMG. But the useful comments have been drowned out by screeching denunciations and personal attacks. Far too often commentary on Manx Forums seems to be sum up as "Everything is shit and we will attack anyone who tries to change it". You're speaking so much sense I think I have to sit down for a minute. Not used to that around here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 6 hours ago, Manxieover65 said: Also found out today they provide a weekly service to Santon which is obviously a better service than their own ratepayers get . They also do so at a clear loss for the ratepayers. I know the figures as do others and there's no way they make money on the hourly rate they charge Santon . If I'm wrong Frank feel free to post on your twitter the figures . You lot are utterly insane Because I enjoy nothing more than arguing with people on the internet at all hours of the day, I went and asked. I do not have any exact figures I can share here (mainly because I'm not on the Env committee) but it does appear as if we are providing refuse collection services for Santon and it is my understanding that Santon ratepayers pay for this, and that the service is either cost neutral or even slightly profitable for DBC. if you know better, why don't you tell us? Or email me what you think you know / heard down the pub and I will check with town hall? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passing Time Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 45 minutes ago, Amadeus said: Because I enjoy nothing more than arguing with people on the internet at all hours of the day, I went and asked. I do not have any exact figures I can share here (mainly because I'm not on the Env committee) but it does appear as if we are providing refuse collection services for Santon and it is my understanding that Santon ratepayers pay for this, and that the service is either cost neutral or even slightly profitable for DBC. if you know better, why don't you tell us? Or email me what you think you know / heard down the pub and I will check with town hall? Do you ever get the feeling that you are howling at the moon? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarndyce Posted December 24, 2022 Share Posted December 24, 2022 4 hours ago, Viddy well said: I really can't tell you how disappointed I am. So I won't. Okay, then… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steady Eddie Posted December 24, 2022 Share Posted December 24, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Amadeus said: Quite disappointed by that and not sure what to make of it. You do know he was my election agent when I ran in 2006 right? Helped me with leaflets etc. He was also a supporter of the DBC recycling scheme that formed the basis for the move to fortnightly collections when he was in council. He changed since he got in up the road. He’s been an MHK since 2016. That’s 6 years ago. Are you seriously suggesting that something he might have done 6 or more years ago conflicts him now? Edited December 24, 2022 by Steady Eddie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steady Eddie Posted December 24, 2022 Share Posted December 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Amadeus said: Because I enjoy nothing more than arguing with people on the internet at all hours of the day, I went and asked. I do not have any exact figures I can share here (mainly because I'm not on the Env committee) but it does appear as if we are providing refuse collection services for Santon and it is my understanding that Santon ratepayers pay for this Surely you and others are aware of how your bin wagons are rostered when the council must have had to factor in all these contracts to work out what the alleged cost savings would be of cutting back services in Douglas but maintaining services under contract to Santon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viddy well Posted December 24, 2022 Share Posted December 24, 2022 What measures are being taken to force Santon into recycling? This is after all a matter of principle is it not? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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