More uselessness from DBC

[Roxanne]

7 minutes ago, CallMeCurious said:

Where do tree seeds come from then? Grass decides it's had enough and wants something more from life?

Or is there a factory somewhere that makes them? Trees literally grow on trees in the same way humans grown inside other humans.  

It's amazing.  Innit. 

[Jarndyce]

4 minutes ago, CallMeCurious said:

Where do tree seeds come from then?

Last time I looked, seeds were seeds - not trees.   However, if you’re comparing plant reproduction processes to human gestation, then I think I’ll cut my losses and stop here. 🤔

[Roxanne]

33 minutes ago, FANDL said:

This forum is quite interesting. Why would anyone present a petition that they have already said is not in an acceptable format for them to consider it? Presumably that would be a waste of time despite a councilor himself signing change.org petitions himself previously expecting them to be taken seriously. Secondly the number of emails sent into the blog site on this alone have been interesting. Have really tried to keep out of this as a lot of it sounded like the usual conspiracy stuff at first. But the way these arguments boomerang here it does leave an overriding perception that this forum is basically manned by DBC staff.

 

14 minutes ago, FANDL said:

On the contrary that is true as opposed to national politics local politics is 100% toxic and nasty and full of the most awful people imaginable. However it’s building up quite an intriguing profile of an authority that appears to be out of control in the way it manages its relationships with its ratepayers and the way it uses social media. Which makes it relatively compelling to follow. 

The king is dead,

Long live the king.

[Declan]

On 3/23/2023 at 9:09 AM, FANDL said:

As clarified an online petition is an online petition. If the councillor expected his support of the St Marks Elms online petition to be successful and for government to act on it, why does he now regard the one signed against his own council to be invalid and refuses to act on it unless supported by 1700 additional names and addresses? It appears to be indicative of ideology driving everything at DBC and little interest in what their ratepayers actually want or expect. It appears that the entire point from the start of this has not been about bin collections at all but about that exact sort of democratic deficit in terms of people not being listened to. 

There is a difference though. There wasn't a multitude of opinions on the St. Marx elms.  The petition was an expression of general sentiment. 

The bin petition has been signed by one side of a debate. There are plenty would sign a counter petition and many happy with the bin change. If we had a law that made petitions into policy they'd need to be constructed more like referendums. 

[FANDL]

12 minutes ago, Declan said:

There is a difference though. There wasn't a multitude of opinions on the St. Marx elms.  The petition was an expression of general sentiment. 

You raise a good point as you say a petition is an expression of dissatisfaction or in a desire to change policy. Presumably there were people that weren’t that bothered about some trees in St Marks just as there won’t be people bothered about this. But if a councillor signed a petition and encouraged others to do the same presumably he felt that it was a valid way of informing government of the way he felt and that they should listen to the petitioners. Which makes a belief that another almost identical petition is invalid because it doesn’t include names and addresses hard to justify. 

[Jarndyce]

8 minutes ago, FANDL said:

a valid way of informing government of the way he felt and that they should listen to the petitioners.

Listening to the petitioners is one thing: a guarantee of a change in policy as a consequence is something else.

[FANDL]

1 minute ago, Jarndyce said:

Listening to the petitioners is one thing: a guarantee of a change in policy as a consequence is something else.

Fully agree but it would appear that in this instance they will not even accept the petition as being valid until 1700 people add their full addresses to it. Imagine if IOM Government had asked for 11,000 names and addresses from the St Marks protesters to be submitted before it would even listen to their request? There would likely have been an uproar. As contended above it’s either like for like or it isn’t. If it isn’t then the optics look wrong. 

[Jarndyce]

1 hour ago, FANDL said:

it’s either like for like or it isn’t. If it isn’t then the optics look wrong.

This is quite interesting.   I’m intrigued to know what you feel should happen now, as a consequence of the optics looking wrong.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Jarndyce said:

This is quite interesting.   I’m intrigued to know what you feel should happen now, as a consequence of the optics looking wrong.

I see his FB post is leading people astray again. GDPR issues? Surely the council holds details anyway of all ratepayers? No issue there I would think. Maybe what the council are saying is that they have to make sure that it’s been signed by residents of Douglas, not someone from Korea for example . Sounds okay unless I’m missing something? 

[Jarndyce]

57 minutes ago, Satan666 said:

Maybe what the council are saying is that they have to make sure that it’s been signed by residents of Douglas, not someone from Korea for example . Sounds okay unless I’m missing something?

I suspect that you’re correct and this is what the council is saying.   I doubt that you’re missing anything - so I think you’re also correct that it sounds okay.

But I’m still intrigued as to what FANDL thinks should happen now, based on the assertion that “the optics look wrong”.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Jarndyce said:

I suspect that you’re correct and this is what the council is saying.   I doubt that you’re missing anything - so I think you’re also correct that it sounds okay.

But I’m still intrigued as to what FANDL thinks should happen now, based on the assertion that “the optics look wrong”.

So am I. If I’m correct in who he is, he stated on Facebook he’ll be running for Councillor next time… but seems to have gone quiet about that now. However I’ve made a note and we’ll see how genuine this character is. 

[FANDL]

35 minutes ago, Satan666 said:

So am I. If I’m correct in who he is, he stated on Facebook he’ll be running for Councillor next time… but seems to have gone quiet about that now. However I’ve made a note and we’ll see how genuine this character is. 

Much as the silly conspiracies that seem to frequently appear on this forum are amusing it should be clarified that nobody linked to the F&L blog has any intention of becoming involved in local politics (in Douglas or any other town) at any time. And neither has anyone said that on Facebook or anywhere else. So your assertion that you are correct is incorrect.

At the start the Facebook Group started pushing links to a write-up the Blog had already done on the DBC fiasco. Which as you will see was based around the democratic deficit in play in Douglas which has led to this situation and nothing to do with complaining about bins. 

https://fearandloathing2021.wixsite.com/fearandloathingblog/post/getta-bloomin-move-on

That has largely played out as envisaged. The blog then distanced itself from the protestors as they were sending angry emails and links to MHKs quoting our write-up. Then the emails about people being banned on this forum and reported to/suspended by Facebook for DBC related posts started arriving. Again nothing to do with the blog. So for clarification there has never at any time been any link to anyone claiming they’re standing for DBC or any of the protestors. You could have pretty much predicted how this was going to play out from day one given the toxic town hall personalities and toxic town hall culture in play. And pretty much it has. The solution would seem to be to acknowledge the petition and then engage in some sort of consultation process to see if it is representative of wider ratepayers issues or not. Which clearly won’t be done because that might require someone at town hall to back down. 

Edited March 24, 2023 by FANDL

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, FANDL said:

Much as the silly conspiracies that seem to frequently appear on this forum are amusing it should be clarified that nobody linked to the F&L blog has any intention of becoming involved in local politics (in Douglas or any other town) at any time. And neither has anyone said that on Facebook or anywhere else. So your assertion that you are correct is incorrect.

At the start the Facebook Group started pushing links to a write-up the Blog had already done on the DBC fiasco. Which as you will see was based around the democratic deficit in play in Douglas which has led to this situation and nothing to do with complaining about bins. 

https://fearandloathing2021.wixsite.com/fearandloathingblog/post/getta-bloomin-move-on

That has largely played out as envisaged. The blog then distanced itself from the protestors as they were sending angry emails and links to MHKs quoting our write-up. Then the emails about people being banned on this forum and shut down by Facebook for DBC related posts started arriving. Again nothing to do with the blog. So for clarification there has never at any time been any link to anyone claiming they’re standing for DBC or any of the protestors. You could have pretty much planned how this was going to play out from day one given the toxic town hall personalities and toxic town hall culture in play. And pretty much it has. 

 

That may be but there were definitely at least two people saying they’d stand at the next election. In a round about way, whatever personal opinions are, it’s good to see the public of Douglas taking interest. Toxic town hall? You may be right but how do you know?

[Cassie2]

18 hours ago, Satan666 said:

That may be but there were definitely at least two people saying they’d stand at the next election. 

Apparently twelve already have indicated a willingness to stand against the current DBC regime:

Karel Ver Elst

Douglas, Isle of Man

20 MAR 2023 

My reply to the above email from the Council has been as follow

Dear Ms Atkins

Thank you for your email.

I am concerned about the GDPR implications of disclosing the personal details of individual petitioners and have taken legal advice in this rega

I am also acutely aware that the relationship of trust between the Douglas Borough Council and the residents of Douglas has been severely strained by the Council’s stance towards its residents. For this reason, I believe that many of the petitioners are concerned that they will be victimised if their personal information is shared with the Council.

The petition should therefore be regarded as an expression of free speech by the residents which will, I am certain, be expressed again at the next council election if it is not taken seriously. Well over a dozen petitioners have already expressed their intention to stand for a seat on the council at the next election. Given the unpopularity of the current council and its hostile and arrogant stance towards its residents, I have no doubt that this issue will therefore be resolved in due course

Moreover, as this is an online petition that remains relevant for as long as the Council persists with its policy of fortnightly bin collections, there seems to be no reason to draw a line under this petition at any particular point in time. The petition remains open to members of the public to voice their opposition to this abysmal decision by the council for so long as the council does not resume weekly general waste collections

For these reasons, I will not be disclosing the personal particulars of individual petitioners to the council or anyone else, nor will I bring the petition to a close until the council has resumed normal waste collection service

The Council can view the progress of the petition online at any time at www.change.org/CollectMyBin and should consider the petition as a service to the council as it is a clear indicator of how unpopular its policies with regard to waste collection ar

It really is not for the Council to instruct residents which hurdles and hoops it should jump before the council will consider the opinions of its residents. The current situation is entirely of the Council’s own makin

The Council may ignore this petition at its own peril.

If the council thinks that individuals who are not residents of Douglas would take the time and make the effort to go through the process of signing this petition, then the the Council’s judgement and grasp of the situation is, perhaps, even worse than we thought.

The petition now has accumulated almost 1,900 signatures in less than three months and will, no doubt, continue to gain ground until the council resumes weekly waste collections or April of 2025, whichever comes first

As a resident, and speaking on my own behalf, I must say that I am at a loss to understand why this Council is not prepared to engage with its residents in a meaningful and constructive manner. It may not be too late to repair the damage that has been don

I can only guess that the reason is that the councillors do not care because responsibility for what is, in reality, a smallish town is shared between 12 councillors, several of whom do not have a significant mandate due to general voter apathy in the past

The foolhardy decision by the Council to halve the frequency of waste collection while simultaneously increasing rates during a time of economic uncertainty and difficulty, has mobilised the electorate in a way that no opposition politician could ever have hoped to do

Ultimately, if any good is to come from all of this, it may be that we get a more democratically representative local government with substantive oversight from a motivated  group councillors in the not too distant future.

Kind regard

Kind regards 

Karel Ver Elst

Edited March 25, 2023 by Cassie2

[Banker]

55 minutes ago, Cassie2 said:

Apparently twelve already have indicated a willingness to stand against the current DBC regime:

Karel Ver Elst

Douglas, Isle of Man

20 MAR 2023 

My reply to the above email from the Council has been as follow

Dear Ms Atkins

Thank you for your email.

I am concerned about the GDPR implications of disclosing the personal details of individual petitioners and have taken legal advice in this rega

I am also acutely aware that the relationship of trust between the Douglas Borough Council and the residents of Douglas has been severely strained by the Council’s stance towards its residents. For this reason, I believe that many of the petitioners are concerned that they will be victimised if their personal information is shared with the Council.

The petition should therefore be regarded as an expression of free speech by the residents which will, I am certain, be expressed again at the next council election if it is not taken seriously. Well over a dozen petitioners have already expressed their intention to stand for a seat on the council at the next election. Given the unpopularity of the current council and its hostile and arrogant stance towards its residents, I have no doubt that this issue will therefore be resolved in due course

Moreover, as this is an online petition that remains relevant for as long as the Council persists with its policy of fortnightly bin collections, there seems to be no reason to draw a line under this petition at any particular point in time. The petition remains open to members of the public to voice their opposition to this abysmal decision by the council for so long as the council does not resume weekly general waste collections

For these reasons, I will not be disclosing the personal particulars of individual petitioners to the council or anyone else, nor will I bring the petition to a close until the council has resumed normal waste collection service

The Council can view the progress of the petition online at any time at www.change.org/CollectMyBin and should consider the petition as a service to the council as it is a clear indicator of how unpopular its policies with regard to waste collection ar

It really is not for the Council to instruct residents which hurdles and hoops it should jump before the council will consider the opinions of its residents. The current situation is entirely of the Council’s own makin

The Council may ignore this petition at its own peril.

If the council thinks that individuals who are not residents of Douglas would take the time and make the effort to go through the process of signing this petition, then the the Council’s judgement and grasp of the situation is, perhaps, even worse than we thought.

The petition now has accumulated almost 1,900 signatures in less than three months and will, no doubt, continue to gain ground until the council resumes weekly waste collections or April of 2025, whichever comes first

As a resident, and speaking on my own behalf, I must say that I am at a loss to understand why this Council is not prepared to engage with its residents in a meaningful and constructive manner. It may not be too late to repair the damage that has been don

I can only guess that the reason is that the councillors do not care because responsibility for what is, in reality, a smallish town is shared between 12 councillors, several of whom do not have a significant mandate due to general voter apathy in the past

The foolhardy decision by the Council to halve the frequency of waste collection while simultaneously increasing rates during a time of economic uncertainty and difficulty, has mobilised the electorate in a way that no opposition politician could ever have hoped to do

Ultimately, if any good is to come from all of this, it may be that we get a more democratically representative local government with substantive oversight from a motivated  group councillors in the not too distant future.

Kind regard

Kind regards 

Karel Ver Elst

Sounds a good Manx name!! Anyone checked if they are a resident?

Uk thinking of making recycling compulsory like lots of  European countries, if waste not sorted it’s not taken away, see how residents get on with that 😂