More uselessness from DBC

[Chie]

45 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

Graveyards are silly really when you think about it.

You can think they are silly all you want, they are still super popular. People are dying to get in there.

Il see myself out.

Edited October 22, 2023 by Chie

[Roger Mexico]

1 hour ago, Gladys said:

I agree it does seem heartless, and tracking down relatives after 10 years could be tricky.  But my point is that the charge is not being applied retrospectively to people who have bought plaques in good faith in the knowledge that there is no further charge. 

But that makes the idea of doing it because they are running out of space pointless.  There won't be any space freed up till at least ten years.  And even when the system then starts to work, you can see problems as plaques are removed and it turns out they took the wrong one or someone had paid to renew and the payment was lost. You can see endless bad feeling being caused to enable a tiny amount of saving (which won't happen).

Of course that's before we get to the subject of memorial plaques on benches, so Douglas may end up offending two lots of grieving relatives at once.  

Incidentally I only discovered today that there's actually a website called Open Benches which maps memorial benches all over the world, though especially the UK:

https://openbenches.org/

 The Isle of Man seems heavily represented with 221 so we clearly love a bench and love a memorial.  The Corpy are playing with fire here

[Gladys]

7 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

But that makes the idea of doing it because they are running out of space pointless.  There won't be any space freed up till at least ten years.  And even when the system then starts to work, you can see problems as plaques are removed and it turns out they took the wrong one or someone had paid to renew and the payment was lost. You can see endless bad feeling being caused to enable a tiny amount of saving (which won't happen).

Of course that's before we get to the subject of memorial plaques on benches, so Douglas may end up offending two lots of grieving relatives at once.  

Incidentally I only discovered today that there's actually a website called Open Benches which maps memorial benches all over the world, though especially the UK:

https://openbenches.org/

 The Isle of Man seems heavily represented with 221 so we clearly love a bench and love a memorial.  The Corpy are playing with fire here

Not supporting it at all, just pointing out it is not retrospective, so nobody is going to be 'duped' having bought a plaque in 'good faith'. 

[Roger Mexico]

16 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Not supporting it at all, just pointing out it is not retrospective, so nobody is going to be 'duped' having bought a plaque in 'good faith'. 

Oh no I understood that - I wasn't criticising, just emphasising the point you made meant that the reason of saving space wouldn't really work.

[Gladys]

42 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

Oh no I understood that - I wasn't criticising, just emphasising the point you made meant that the reason of saving space wouldn't really work.

There seems to be no reason really, certainly isn’t a money spinner, won't start to save space for 10 years and, as others have pointed out, has lots of potential for going wrong. 

[WTF]

10 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Well they’ve been going for thousands of years.

and after all these thousands of  years people are still dying to get into them.

[Amadeus]

11 hours ago, Declan said:

Perhaps, he doesn't want to discuss the issue of benches and hopes it will quickly get burried in this one. Or he hopes that moving the benches discussion will be bury the on going one. Maybe he's just a control freak, but I don't see the issue in having a new thread on a new subject.

Then have your two threads. 

[Fred the shred]

More information regarding the Bellamy case in IOM Today tonight it doesn’t mention how much the costs have added up to that DTC will have to find it probably hasn’t been tallied up yet but lots of expensive lawyers involved so it is going to hurt Douglas ratepayers.   Mishandled and pursued since 2014 .

[Albert Tatlock]

9 minutes ago, Fred the shred said:

More information regarding the Bellamy case in IOM Today tonight it doesn’t mention how much the costs have added up to that DTC will have to find it probably hasn’t been tallied up yet but lots of expensive lawyers involved so it is going to hurt Douglas ratepayers.   Mishandled and pursued since 2014 .

Could be a mini-fortune this one.

[WTF]

10 hours ago, Albert Tatlock said:

Could be a mini-fortune this one.

they may have to sell another chain

[Fred the shred]

They may have to put the new benches on hold we are talking three KCs amongst others …oooo mother.

[Cueey Lewis And The News]

38 minutes ago, Fred the shred said:

They may have to put the new benches on hold we are talking three KCs amongst others …oooo mother.

Yes 4 KCs to arrive at the following result and to reveal that the Council CEO, who is an English Solicitor, thought that she had authority to do something when she had no such authority at all. Yet another very expensive vanity legal action for the DBC ratepayers. 

Two previous notices issued by the local authority had failed in the courts and a third notice was taken all the way to a contested trial.

Deemster Morris had ruled the fourth notice issued in 2014 was defective for a number of reasons, including that it failed to state the timeframe for the required works. It was a finding of fact that the chief executive had issued it with the genuine and honestly held belief she had authority to do so but in fact did not have such authority.

In the latest judgment, Judge of Appeal Anthony Cross KC, Deemster William Bailhache KC and Deemster Jeremy Storey KC dismissed all grounds of the appeal.

[Roger Mexico]

In case anyone is wondering what all that is about, the above quotes are from an IOM Newspapers article:

https://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/douglas-council-has-lost-another-appeal-to-get-a-house-extension-torn-down-645729

The stuff about people being KCs is irrelevant as they were acting as judges in this case, the KC is just there as an honorific.

The appeal court judgment the article is derived from is here:

https://www.judgments.im/content/2DS2023_11-13Oct23 B.pdf

As the opening paragraph gloomily states:

The sequence of events which have led to this judgment began approximately 25 years ago. Over the course of that protracted period of time, The Mayor Aldermen and Burgesses of the Borough of Douglas [‘Douglas’] have sought to require Mr David Bellamy [‘Mr Bellamy’] to either complete, or demolish, a building on land at Braddan Lodge, Quarterbridge Road, Douglas [the ‘Property’]. Despite countless attempts at enforcement action and not one denial from Mr Bellamy as to the existence of the problem or that the request is justified, the problem still remains.

The fact that DBC have failed to sort this out competently over such a long period is an achievement of sorts, I suppose.  Given that:

The full facts are set out in judgments of the various courts of this Island as this case has troubled the High Bailiff’s court, the Ordinary Division on a number of occasions and this court on two

I'll leave you to rummage to find all the previous judgments, though if ever there was a case where both sides deserved to lose it's this one.  But two things stand out.  The first is the desire for officers and particularly Rice to make the decisions rather than the Councillors.  This simply wasn't legal and was what led to this endless case.  The second is the refusal to ever accept that they were wrong.  No matter how often the Courts found against them, they continued to appeal rather than simply accepting the ruling and carrying out the enforcement correctly and legally.

We've seen this form of lawfare before on the Island (think of all those mystifying Ranson appeals) and the judgment here contains similar examples of judges having to point out that DBC have stated something and then not even bothered to try to argue the case.  It's tempting to think that the whole thing is a scam to put public money in the pockets of certain law firms, but the truth is probably just that those involved are to vain to think they are ever wrong and, despite all previous experience, think if they keep nagging the Courts like a a small child, they will eventually get the answer they want to hear.

[Cueey Lewis And The News]

3 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

But two things stand out.  The first is the desire for officers and particularly Rice to make the decisions rather than the Councillors.  This simply wasn't legal and was what led to this endless case.  The second is the refusal to ever accept that they were wrong.  No matter how often the Courts found against them, they continued to appeal rather than simply accepting the ruling and carrying out the enforcement correctly and legally.

Same as Ranson as you say. Total public sector reality defying arrogance that they are right because they are “important” people who think that “status” is all they need in order to tell you what to do. 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Cueey Lewis And The News

[Banker]

Just saw a post by DBC that they are missing an exit barrier!, surely someone couldn’t steal an exit barrier without being spotted?.