More uselessness from DBC

[Idleweiss]

58 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

Well you could find out by typing "Wheeler" into the search box on this very page and it would given you all the posts where he was mentioned on this very topic and you could read those and those surrounding them.

Of course I did that but again it sort of adds to his claims as it appears that a poster who did make disparaging remarks about him has subsequently been anonymized by the forum. But they remain clear in a post reply. So it just sort of raises more questions than answers. 

[John Wright]

2 minutes ago, Idleweiss said:

Of course I did that but again it sort of adds to his claims as it appears that a poster who did make disparaging remarks about him has subsequently been anonymized by the forum. But they remain clear in a post reply. So it just sort of raises more questions than answers. 

I don’t think you can read anything into Satan666 converting into Guest. I think, remembering back to my moderating days, it’s just a function of using one of the banning routes.

So Satan666 called someone an idiot. That, and worse, happens all the time.

Looking at the FB screenshot who was the author of the two posts calling town hall staff idiots.

All looks a bit pot kettle black.

[cissolt]

Back on topic....

Council Leader Claire Wells claimed £2,887.50 for 25 meetings which totalled 91 hours. Sounds like a very high hourly rate for the job.

I would have expected the leader to be putting in more hours than the other members rather than the least.

https://manx.news/council-members-expenses-over-21k-for-meeting-attendances/?feed_id=13094&_unique_id=6687fca911a6b&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR2uLvizYOYG1KHT9i1qmy523rdKRdT1NyLmaCUkHa6jRUg-7sz9Bi4tijE_aem_MNdBfzJzZqNYp1SgRkXm3w

[Gladys]

4 minutes ago, cissolt said:

Back on topic....

Council Leader Claire Wells claimed £2,887.50 for 25 meetings which totalled 91 hours. Sounds like a very high hourly rate for the job.

I would have expected the leader to be putting in more hours than the other members rather than the least.

https://manx.news/council-members-expenses-over-21k-for-meeting-attendances/?feed_id=13094&_unique_id=6687fca911a6b&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR2uLvizYOYG1KHT9i1qmy523rdKRdT1NyLmaCUkHa6jRUg-7sz9Bi4tijE_aem_MNdBfzJzZqNYp1SgRkXm3w

Perhaps she spent more time on Council business than she claimed? 

[Mercenary]

5 hours ago, cissolt said:

Back on topic....

Council Leader Claire Wells claimed £2,887.50 for 25 meetings which totalled 91 hours. Sounds like a very high hourly rate for the job.

I would have expected the leader to be putting in more hours than the other members rather than the least.

https://manx.news/council-members-expenses-over-21k-for-meeting-attendances/?feed_id=13094&_unique_id=6687fca911a6b&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR2uLvizYOYG1KHT9i1qmy523rdKRdT1NyLmaCUkHa6jRUg-7sz9Bi4tijE_aem_MNdBfzJzZqNYp1SgRkXm3w

I think this a bit of a low blow, there's no doubting the majority of councillors (and particularly the leader) put in substantial hours to undertake the role and no doubt make (sometimes substantial) social and family sacrifices to do so. It's clearly a burden with many councillor roles returned unopposed, so we should be trying to improve the interest in serving as one.

 

The expenses claimed are minimal compared to the real hours put in - if they were seeking money a part time role in a shop would be far more lucrative.

[Roger Mexico]

5 hours ago, cissolt said:

Back on topic....

Council Leader Claire Wells claimed £2,887.50 for 25 meetings which totalled 91 hours. Sounds like a very high hourly rate for the job.

I would have expected the leader to be putting in more hours than the other members rather than the least.

https://manx.news/council-members-expenses-over-21k-for-meeting-attendances/?feed_id=13094&_unique_id=6687fca911a6b&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR2uLvizYOYG1KHT9i1qmy523rdKRdT1NyLmaCUkHa6jRUg-7sz9Bi4tijE_aem_MNdBfzJzZqNYp1SgRkXm3w

As always you need to look at the original documents to see what is going on, rather than relying on the interpretation of the journalists involved.  This comes from:

REPORT ON MEMBERS’ ATTENDANCE AT MEETINGS FOR THE FINANCIAL YEAR ENDING 31ST MARCH 2024

though they unhelpfully don't provide totals[1].  There is however a footnote:

The expenses paid include claims for meetings attended by Members in their capacity as Councillors that are not listed in Section 1 of this report.

Now you would expect the Leader of the Council to have a lot of meetings with officers, IOMG representatives and the like, while most councillors are only claiming on the whole for the formal meetings they attend and prepare for, as they won't be involved in so many others.  But even on the the formal council and committee meetings listed, Wells is only getting £31.73 an hour.  Clearly we should make this the maximum rate for people in charge of large organisations.

The Report also makes it clear why the person with the highest number of hours is the Mayor, because she is an ex-officio member of every committee, while the Leader isn't, presumably so as to not to undermine the Chairs of the committees.  I'm not sure why the Mayor is on everything except that it's always been like that.  Her hourly rate only works out at £17.09 by the way.

I can't help wondering is when Juan Turner, the owner of Manx News, was a member of LegCo he was only paid for the meetings of LegCo and Tynwald he attended and at similar rates.  Somehow I doubt it.

 

[1]  The site is also currently marked as "Not Secure".  Not for the first time.

[Amadeus]

2 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

As always you need to look at the original documents to see what is going on, rather than relying on the interpretation of the journalists involved.  This comes from:

REPORT ON MEMBERS’ ATTENDANCE AT MEETINGS FOR THE FINANCIAL YEAR ENDING 31ST MARCH 2024

though they unhelpfully don't provide totals[1].  There is however a footnote:

The expenses paid include claims for meetings attended by Members in their capacity as Councillors that are not listed in Section 1 of this report.

Now you would expect the Leader of the Council to have a lot of meetings with officers, IOMG representatives and the like, while most councillors are only claiming on the whole for the formal meetings they attend and prepare for, as they won't be involved in so many others.  But even on the the formal council and committee meetings listed, Wells is only getting £31.73 an hour.  Clearly we should make this the maximum rate for people in charge of large organisations.

The Report also makes it clear why the person with the highest number of hours is the Mayor, because she is an ex-officio member of every committee, while the Leader isn't, presumably so as to not to undermine the Chairs of the committees.  I'm not sure why the Mayor is on everything except that it's always been like that.  Her hourly rate only works out at £17.09 by the way.

I can't help wondering is when Juan Turner, the owner of Manx News, was a member of LegCo he was only paid for the meetings of LegCo and Tynwald he attended and at similar rates.  Somehow I doubt it.

 

[1]  The site is also currently marked as "Not Secure".  Not for the first time.

We can claim £12.50 per hour day time and £7.50 per hour evening plus some prep time but there are strict limits. Only one hour prep I think. Not sure as I don’t claim very often. Also not sure what the leader does all the time to be honest as there’s hardly ever any communication with or from her that I can see. Maybe there is more but apparently we can’t receive emails while off island for security reasons so I’m out of the loop until I get back. 

[Albert Tatlock]

3 hours ago, Amadeus said:

...but apparently we can’t receive emails while off island for security reasons so I’m out of the loop until I get back. 

Sounds more like for 'poor security reasons'...there are lots of cost-effective secure methods and apps for delivering communications if thought through.

[Idleweiss]

Sounds like another Wells disaster IT decision.

From: Oh I’ve been hacked and I’ve reported it all to the OCSIA as this is so awful

https://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/politics/online-watchdog-is-looking-into-council-email-spoofing-590695

To: But we still won’t pay for better cyber security

https://www.three.fm/news/isle-of-man-news/douglas-council-doesnt-want-better-cyber-protection/

All within the space of 12 months.

So stopping councilors accessing email remotely looks like a similarly idiotic decision when there are so many packages around (that they clearly won’t pay for even after you’ve had an issue with email). 

[Gladys]

Someone can correct me, but if a spoof email is sent does that mean the spoofer has somehow hacked into the system?  I thought spoofing was a way of making an email appear to be from a particular sender, but if you hover over the sending address line, the real sender's email address appears. 

Also, does the decision not to have enhanced cyber-security mean there is no cyber security or rather that as they do not consider themselves to be critical - like health, utilities, benefits, Treasury,  etc - they fo not need an enhanced security system?

Have to say the decision not to allow off-island access to emails is bizarre in this day and age with various security measures to allow it safely and routinely used by many organisations. 

Also, Amadeus's comment about the lack of communication from the leader is worrying.  Isn't keeping other council members informed part of the role of the council leader? 

[Idleweiss]

8 minutes ago, Gladys said:

 Also, does the decision not to have enhanced cyber-security mean there is no cyber security or rather that as they do not consider themselves to be critical - like health, utilities, benefits, Treasury,  etc - they fo not need an enhanced security system?

The way I read it if they are regarded as critical national infrastructure (ie, business critical to the running of government) then in case of cyberattacks they have to upgrade their systems. But despite having shouted very loudly about a cyber attack within the previous year it looks like they still refused to invest into better cyber security and so tried to get their importance downgraded so that they didn’t have to.

i would imagine any government critical system that would be needed in an emergency has to make the investment they clearly don’t want to. From what the council member said above about email they’re just doing it all on the cheap despite vulnerabilities and so it’s easier to just stop people accessing emails. 

Edited July 7 by Idleweiss
Random full stop.

[Gladys]

1 minute ago, Idleweiss said:

The way I read it if they are regarded as critical national infrastructure (ie, business critical to the running of government) then in case of cyberattacks.they have to upgrade their systems. But despite having shouted very loudly about a cyber attack with in the previous year they still refused to invest into better cyber security and so tried to get their importance downgraded so that they didn’t have to.

i would imagine any government critical system that would be needed in an emergency has to make the investment they clearly don’t want to. From what the council member said above about email they’re just doing it on the cheap and so it’s easier to just stop people accessing emails. 

Yes, but was the spoofed email actually a cyber attack on their system?  As to whether their system is a critical national infrastructure system, is it really?

Not defending them, but just pointing out that the spoof email issue and decision not to enhance cyber security measures may not necessarily be the issues you think.  But the email access and communication issues may be bigger issues of concern to Douglas ratepayers.  

[Sheldon]

It wasn't a "cyber attack". It wasn't even good spoofing.

Also, if their "system" is SO BAD that they daren't risk off-Island email then they shouldn't be using it on-Island either.

[John Wright]

I don’t think there was a breach of cybersecurity over the Wells spoof e-mail

I do think DBC notified it to OCSIA, in a sort of throw away, this has happened, sort of way

I don’t think DBC actually reported it to OCSIA or asked them to investigate or report

I don’t think OCSIA have investigated or reported ( as they weren’t asked to do so ) 

Not sure why DBC are pretending they did or that they are awaiting a report

I think there’s a restriction on accessing the government server ( where Douglas is hosted ),  and e-mails/info hosted on it, whilst off island. But I’m pretty sure that you can access if you set up dual factor authentication. This based on my experience when I was a member of the Health Services Independent Review Body.

[Roger Mexico]

1 minute ago, Gladys said:

Yes, but was the spoofed email actually a cyber attack on their system?  As to whether their system is a critical national infrastructure system, is it really?

Not defending them, but just pointing out that the spoof email issue and decision not to enhance cyber security measures may not necessarily be the issues you think.  But the email access and communication issues may be bigger issues of concern to Douglas ratepayers.  

The point about how a spoofed email actually works has been made on here numerous times by numerous people to those repeating it and it's ignored every time.  The only one who was spoofed was someone at Manx Radio doing the weekend shift.  It's like the guy obsessed with the Rosemount's bins and his supporters (indeed it's probably the same people) - no matter how often it's explained that the Council has nothing to do with it, they continue insisting it does.  Because facts aren't remotely important, what's important is feeling that they always in the right and attacking someone they have decided they don't like, no matter how ridiculously.

(In this of course they are just like the British media - indeed that's where they learnt this behaviour from).