More uselessness from DBC

[Steady Eddie]

9 minutes ago, Lilly said:

Ah well that's what they all advertise,  however, on purchasing my new telly from Curry's a big notice on the till stating they can no longer accept free disposal of TVs etc. 

All these recycling charges are is basically a poor tax. You can’t even throw things away now without being charged. So how are a lot of the lower income people of Douglas supposed to get rid of stuff now if they can’t put it in their bins? £26 to get rid of a broken TV is fine if you’re some some Tesla driving eco warrior but it’s a few days shopping for a lot of people which is completely obscene. I honestly don’t think Douglas Corporation have a clue. 

[Amadeus]

On 11/26/2022 at 12:50 AM, Viddy well said:

Don't take this the wrong way, but I'm less interested in considered answers that follow a meeting on how to manage the message. You would have had 20 days to answer my query had it been a Freedom-of-Information request - you're collectively well past that.

Now I don't expect that level of service from an anonymous, public forum. It's genuinely impressive that you're single-handedly trying to bring transparency to the peanut gallery that is MF.

DBC has played its first card - the fortnightly collection. It's doubled-down on the one-bin-only rule.
The public has responded: the recycling bins are inadequate compared to the four-wheelie-bin system across, and some arrangements (for example, communal bins belonging to flats, families with young children, etc.) need immediate concessions because their circumstances make fortnightly collections intolerable.

If you want to take this recycling initiative seriously, then make a serious investment in it for the long term and stop faffing around like amateurs.
 

 

So, about your questions, which you rightly pointed out are overdue an answer, I had to get a few things aligned first. I do have (most) of the information available and could have posted something earlier, but politics is, well, political and I have a balance to strike. On the one hand I want us to be as transparent and open as possible - way more than anyone in town hall would ever be comfortable with. On the other hand I have to respect the rules and procedures that come with the job and that I signed up for. Going mad max on these things and upsetting town hall too much won't help me when I need stuff in future.

So as so often in life, it's about balance and also about communication. To improve the latter, I've had a meeting with the relevant people the other day and we now have a procedure in place whereby any questions from here that I pick up are routed through a dedicated contact who can then go off and find answers - rather than me contacting various departments and trying to figure out who knows what. He will then get back to me and hopefully we'll have information to share here. May all sound terribly complicated but I think it's worth pointing out that resources are limited, which is also the reason why town hall wouldn't open their own account here or get involved in Facebook arguments. However, I argued that me picking up questions here is no different from someone emailing me and I made it clear that I'm happy to engage here.

I also made it clear that I will always defend this place and the possibility for people to post anonymously. Believe you me that a lot of people don't like MF and its anonymity (in general) but I think it's important that such an option exists on such a small island. Some things you can't or don't want to post under your own name and I believe that many whistleblowing polices are nothing short of pointless. So we're filling that gap and our track record of breaking some huge stories here proves us right. At the same time, I have to acknowledge the fact that anonymous posts can be upsetting to some, and that not everyone is as thick skinned as I might be. So balance again, even though I think that people in high positions should be able to take quite a bit of flak and not try to hide behind procedures when things get uncomfortable. 

Finally, I brought up the idea of making a video about the council and what it actually is we do, how it works, etc. Initially I wanted to do it on my own, but I may do one myself and one official one with help from town hall now For this, we now need things to include in the script, so please let me know what you would like to see covered and I'll try and include it. 

 

 

[Thrax]

When the bin auditors show up, they need information about you in order to make a decision. Some of that information is called "personal data". For example, who you are, where you live, how many children you have and so forth. In some cases the personal data is particularly sensitive. For example, the fact that you have a medical condition (e.g. incontinence).

There are strict rules about how personal data is gathered and processed. Not only do you have to provide people with a description of how you intend to process their data, but when you are a public authority, you cannot simply rely upon people saying it's okay if you process their data (called "consent"). Instead, you have to be able to prove that you have a legal reason to do so.

The current situation looks to be very ad-hoc, which I think could cause real problems for the Council if it were reported to the Information Commissioner. At the very least the Council would have to prove it can gather that personal data and make decisions about it by pointing to the law that lets them do it and that seems unlikely.

If you want to learn more about this important aspect of data protection, you can look at something called the GDPR, which contains all the rules you need. I can get you a link if you want to show it to the Council members.

 

 

 

[Gladys]

5 minutes ago, Thrax said:

When the bin auditors show up, they need information about you in order to make a decision. Some of that information is called "personal data". For example, who you are, where you live, how many children you have and so forth. In some cases the personal data is particularly sensitive. For example, the fact that you have a medical condition (e.g. incontinence).

There are strict rules about how personal data is gathered and processed. Not only do you have to provide people with a description of how you intend to process their data, but when you are a public authority, you cannot simply rely upon people saying it's okay if you process their data (called "consent"). Instead, you have to be able to prove that you have a legal reason to do so.

The current situation looks to be very ad-hoc, which I think could cause real problems for the Council if it were reported to the Information Commissioner. At the very least the Council would have to prove it can gather that personal data and make decisions about it by pointing to the law that lets them do it and that seems unlikely.

If you want to learn more about this important aspect of data protection, you can look at something called the GDPR, which contains all the rules you need. I can get you a link if you want to show it to the Council members.

 

 

 

Not sure the number of children you have is personal data for data protection purposes. 

[Banker]

9 hours ago, Steady Eddie said:

This is what people forget. If you’re struggling financially why on earth would you have £25 to get rid of a broken telly if you needed that £25 so your kids could eat next week? Let alone perhaps even have a car to take it to the tip in. Which makes this whole issue of lower levels of disposal service seem ridiculous. All we’re going to see is more fly tipping and general public rubbish dispersal. All so that a local authority can pretend to save a few pounds. 

Most of them aren’t broken, if people can afford to buy the latest 60inch tv they can afford £25 to dispose of old ones 

[cissolt]

33 minutes ago, C Montgomery Burns said:

What about all the people on Facebook? All the people on Twitter? All the people on the IOM newspapers comments section who clearly are not happy too? Will you be a special ambassador for those too? The system that applies at Town Hall everyone knows. People complain and nothing is done about it, because nobody is interested in doing anything about it. Because they’ll still get paid next month whether 50% of their service users aren’t happy with the services they’re receiving or not. The only way of you lot resolving this is backing down and making an apology. But everyone knows that will never happen so whatever you do or don’t do is totally futile. 

It's worth pointing out that Amadeus is the only councillor who can be bothered interacting on the forum and social media.

He genuinely seems to be trying to help, unlike the leader or other council members.

 

 

[2112]

49 minutes ago, cissolt said:

It's worth pointing out that Amadeus is the only councillor who can be bothered interacting on the forum and social media.

He genuinely seems to be trying to help, unlike the leader or other council members.

 

 

Some local authority tinpot commissioners and councillors treat their roles as not to help or wish to get involved in serving the public. They treat their election as a springboard to higher power, namely the desire to become an MHK and higher recognition. Some, even get recognition with a gong, but that doesn’t mean that they are any use as an elected representative, but merely a stooge to the establishment. 

[Cassie2]

10 hours ago, Amadeus said:

'''On the one hand I want us to be as transparent and open as possible - way more than anyone in town hall would ever be comfortable with. On the other hand I have to respect the rules and procedures that come with the job and that I signed up for. Going mad max on these things and upsetting town hall too much won't help me when I need stuff in future.''

For goodness sake, Mr / Herr Shuengel, this totally defies belief. THE COUNCILLORS are the elected representatives of THE RATEPAYERS. As such they are the over-seers and employers of the staff. Or could it be that you, your fellow German Falk Horning (Chairman of the Environment etc Committee) and the other idiotic Councillors who supported this nonsense and have stayed silent ever since think that this is actually Germany in 1930s and that you can impose your will on We. The. People.

You have not resolved a single problem in this matter which now has approaching 700 people signed up to the Protest Group. A totally unprecedented number of protesters in this normally laid back place.

And yet you arrogantly dismiss all of them out-of-hand as irrelevant nobodies.

You have not actually supplied any helpful information let alone done anything concrete to change things for the better and repair the disaster you voted for and continue to support unquestioningly.

You have simply now just said that that you are frightened to upset internal applecarts in the shameful and badly broken Douglas Borough Council.

You need to look in a mirror and tell yourself that you are there to serve the people and not yourself, not your co-councillors and not the staff of Douglas Borough Council. And not your woke Uber Greenie Environmentalist dogmas either.

Many thousands of people are aware of how you all have acted and most will be sure to remember that.  

 

[Andy Onchan]

17 hours ago, Gladys said:

 

As I see it most people were already recycling etc. Sure there's probably some who can't be arsed or indeed don't have the ability to do that due to their location but that's not the issue.

The thing is.... we have an incinerator and recycling operating in tandem and to be honest neither are carbon neutral and are very expensive to operate. In reality there's only room for one solution.

Edited November 28, 2022 by Andy Onchan

[code99]

11 hours ago, Amadeus said:

This explains some of the process. Anything more detailed I would have to ask for info, but I have toured the facilities and seen how they do things. 

Thanks Amadeus for posting the video (which is very slick, and largely informative). 

What I am suggesting is that it would be good if DBC could regularly update ratepayers/ DBC website with the metrics of how much waste had been actually recycled and turned into useful products, or have ended up in landfill somewhere.

Do the DBC's partners in the UK provide the details about how each batch of our refuse is processed? Also, it is unclear what the financial flows/ impacts of these recycling processes are - surely, the ratepayers have a right to know these sorts of things?

 

[Amadeus]

2 minutes ago, code99 said:

Thanks Amadeus for posting the video (which is very slick, and largely informative). 

What I am suggesting is that it would be good if DBC could regularly update ratepayers/ DBC website with the metrics of how much waste had been actually recycled and turned into useful products, or have ended up in landfill somewhere.

Do the DBC's partners in the UK provide the details about how each batch of our refuse is processed? Also, it is unclear what the financial flows/ impacts of these recycling processes are - surely, the ratepayers have a right to know these sorts of things?

 

That’s a good question and I’d like to know that too actually. Emailing them now to find out. 

[Banker]

50 minutes ago, Cassie2 said:

For goodness sake, Mr / Herr Shuengel, this totally defies belief. THE COUNCILLORS are the elected representatives of THE RATEPAYERS. As such they are the over-seers and employers of the staff. Or could it be that you, your fellow German Falk Horning (Chairman of the Environment etc Committee) and the other idiotic Councillors who supported this nonsense and have stayed silent ever since think that this is actually Germany in 1930s and that you can impose your will on We. The. People.

You have not resolved a single problem in this matter which now has approaching 700 people signed up to the Protest Group. A totally unprecedented number of protesters in this normally laid back place.

And yet you arrogantly dismiss all of them out-of-hand as irrelevant nobodies.

You have not actually supplied any helpful information let alone done anything concrete to change things for the better and repair the disaster you voted for and continue to support unquestioningly.

You have simply now just said that that you are frightened to upset internal applecarts in the shameful and badly broken Douglas Borough Council.

You need to look in a mirror and tell yourself that you are there to serve the people and not yourself, not your co-councillors and not the staff of Douglas Borough Council. And not your woke Uber Greenie Environmentalist dogmas either.

Many thousands of people are aware of how you all have acted and most will be sure to remember that.  

 

This is just bollocks attacking someone because they’re German, just calm down!

[Amadeus]

52 minutes ago, Cassie2 said:

For goodness sake, Mr / Herr Shuengel, this totally defies belief. THE COUNCILLORS are the elected representatives of THE RATEPAYERS. As such they are the over-seers and employers of the staff. Or could it be that you, your fellow German Falk Horning (Chairman of the Environment etc Committee) and the other idiotic Councillors who supported this nonsense and have stayed silent ever since think that this is actually Germany in 1930s and that you can impose your will on We. The. People.

You have not resolved a single problem in this matter which now has approaching 700 people signed up to the Protest Group. A totally unprecedented number of protesters in this normally laid back place.

And yet you arrogantly dismiss all of them out-of-hand as irrelevant nobodies.

You have not actually supplied any helpful information let alone done anything concrete to change things for the better and repair the disaster you voted for and continue to support unquestioningly.

You have simply now just said that that you are frightened to upset internal applecarts in the shameful and badly broken Douglas Borough Council.

You need to look in a mirror and tell yourself that you are there to serve the people and not yourself, not your co-councillors and not the staff of Douglas Borough Council. And not your woke Uber Greenie Environmentalist dogmas either.

Many thousands of people are aware of how you all have acted and most will be sure to remember that.  

 

I was wondering when you would mention the war. I know who I serve but I also know that there are always two sides to every issue, and certain ways to do things. Of course councillors are already talking to each other behind the scenes on this and as mentioned, we have processes in place already. If you genuinely think you’ll struggle, we will review and supply another or a bigger bin.
 

I’m not dismissing anything, I am assessing the situation rationally and from all sides. We don’t have government by Facebook over here and the number of people signed up to a group you are clearly passionate about may not be as strong an indication as you think. Trust me, been there many times before as supporter and organiser. 

The island is decades behind the UK and other places when it comes to recycling. That has nothing to do with being a woke greenie, which I sure am not. I may drive an EV through town but that’s because it’s cheap to run. I also have a couple of big gas guzzlers that would make any Green Party rep hyperventilate and I love them. Again, everything is about balance. 

[Dirty Buggane]

Yeah start by quantifying a killer whale, it states you are recycling the weight of 286 killer whales of plastic. A pointless statement as whales range from a baby 450 kg to a fully grown male at many 1,000,s. Same as the latest leaflet, psudo green signaling as with the water and Basking shark, are you saying if no recycling goes ahead all of the isle of man plastic would be dumped at sea. Sorry but it seems an awful lot of mixed metaphors are being bandied about 

[Weliveinhope]

You know what, fucking change the record. Its just constant...whatever the guy says you will interpret it how you want and just continue to attack. Yes there are issues with most things, but where is it any better? Whether it be the NHS, the environment, inequality, whatever, its the world over. You think it'll help improve things by being nasty or constantly trolling? Would you be happy for your children to behave in this way? Any of you got off your backsides and put yourself up for election, or tried to make the world a better place? Probably not, instead sit behind a keyboard spouting your bile. Money and greed has brought the word to where it is today. You think one guy can walk into an organisation with an ingrained (probably toxic) culture and change it over night? Get a grip and instead of constantly looking to knock the slightest thing enagage with these people, offer ideas, suggestions, offer your help. But I guess its far easier to be a prick on an anonymous forum than to make an effort to understand and engage.

Disclaimer: I do not work for govenment, i do not know Frank. 

Edited November 28, 2022 by Weliveinhope