Happier diner Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 6 hours ago, Gladys said: You haven't hit a nerve at all. Don't worry about that. I just don't understand why people are not trying to work with it and address the flaws, instead of trying to reverse it. I would be happy to debate complaints from someone who said they had tried to work within the new arrangements but could not make it work for them for specific reasons (other than changing their habits) rather than someone who has not even tried. Morning Gladys I am trying. I did note that the recycle bins were all piled high yesterday. Fortunately it wasn't wasn't windy day. I guess that's a good sign in a sort of way but did highlight the limitations. Lots of soggy cardboard. If there was one thing that I would like to see improved is how to better collect paper and card. Its not good to see litter blown all over Douglas. Are you aware of any machinations to address this. @Amadeus. Has this been feedback to the team? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 I'd assume that a ton of newspaper has a calculable calorific value for putting into the incinerator for electrical generating use. Does anyone think DBC has carried out a CBA on shipping paper away for recycling vs putting it into the incinerator? If they have, do they publish it? If they haven't, what does anyone think the best solution would be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 54 minutes ago, Happier diner said: Morning Gladys I am trying. I did note that the recycle bins were all piled high yesterday. Fortunately it wasn't wasn't windy day. I guess that's a good sign in a sort of way but did highlight the limitations. Lots of soggy cardboard. If there was one thing that I would like to see improved is how to better collect paper and card. Its not good to see litter blown all over Douglas. Are you aware of any machinations to address this. @Amadeus. Has this been feedback to the team? Totally agree. The recycle boxes don't work, particularly for paper and card. The elasticated covers provided lose their elasticity and become brittle and split after a little while. They are also tricky to store. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asthehills Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 32 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: I'd assume that a ton of newspaper has a calculable calorific value for putting into the incinerator for electrical generating use. Does anyone think DBC has carried out a CBA on shipping paper away for recycling vs putting it into the incinerator? If they have, do they publish it? If they haven't, what does anyone think the best solution would be? Burn it at the incinerator. Generate power from it without having to ship it off island on a number of different vehicles and the boat so that it can be processed through a very power hungry plant and then shipped back to go knows where for reuse before being shipped back to another end user. I very much doubt anyone has actually assessed the pros and cons of each, they will simply be in the mindset of “recycling = good, burning stuff = bad” Plus of course they will be driven by cost. Any environmental benefit to recycling on island is negligible to non existing in my option, purely down to the transport required. If we were 20 miles from a recycling centre I would fully support it, but we aren’t and as a result it’s virtue signalling at best. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 1 hour ago, TheTeapot said: I'd assume that a ton of newspaper has a calculable calorific value for putting into the incinerator for electrical generating use. Does anyone think DBC has carried out a CBA on shipping paper away for recycling vs putting it into the incinerator? If they have, do they publish it? If they haven't, what does anyone think the best solution would be? Its not as simple as that. Yes a ton of newspaper will produce heat. However the process of producing a tonne of paper from virgin pulp takes more energy. The difference between the two is the key. Add to this the fact that you are cutting down less trees. I have never seen an assessment from here. There is lots of information on the interweb https://ocshredding.com/2013/03/07/does-it-take-more-energy-to-produce-recycled-paper/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 28 minutes ago, Asthehills said: Burn it at the incinerator. Generate power from it without having to ship it off island on a number of different vehicles and the boat so that it can be processed through a very power hungry plant and then shipped back to go knows where for reuse before being shipped back to another end user. I very much doubt anyone has actually assessed the pros and cons of each, they will simply be in the mindset of “recycling = good, burning stuff = bad” Plus of course they will be driven by cost. Any environmental benefit to recycling on island is negligible to non existing in my option, purely down to the transport required. If we were 20 miles from a recycling centre I would fully support it, but we aren’t and as a result it’s virtue signalling at best. see above Not as simple as that if you think about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallMeCurious Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 The whole point of the green agenda is "It's not economically viable so we'll legislate to make you do it and damn the cost and consequences". And it is sold to the politico's as "you can say you are saving the planet" without having to prove it. Net zero does not mean we don't produce any CO2 but that any CO2 we do produce (based on some criteria that presumably excludes resperation and focuses on energy use and production) is negated by taking the CO2 out of circulation by carbon capture/recyling. What it will mean is in order to acheive this on (recycled) paper (with lots of fanfare and back patting) we will buy carbon credits at great expense (coz we've signed up to a treaty to get net zero and it would be very very bad if we didn't keep our promise that no-one voted for) to plant a tree in some far distant land (allegedly) with lots of middle men and brokers in between taking a cut. How many times can you sell the same tree I wonder? A beautiful scam. Fudge a few numbers hear and there and all will be good. Human greed will find a way. At this stage I don't think it is global warming that will get us but plain stupidity and gullibility. It'll certainly is going to make everyone but the elite poorer and lower the standard of living. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallMeCurious Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 11 minutes ago, Happier diner said: see above Not as simple as that if you think about it Doesn't mean it can't be calculated. Trouble is they might not like the answer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 the thing is , some people/households can manage with the bin they have being collected once a fortnight so it isn't an issue to them , but other people/households are in the position that they have been doing all the recycling they can and they still need their bin emptied weekly. government want to raise the population but we can't deal with the rubbish the current population creates. another aspect that i have not seen mentioned is the H&S aspect, bins collected weekly weigh X amount and bins collected fortnightly are now being 'trash compacted' by the residents to get as much in as possible and bins will now be weighing X x 1.5 or whatever. the increased physical strains on the refuse collectors will see some off work with injury and claims for compo may well ensue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 9 minutes ago, CallMeCurious said: Doesn't mean it can't be calculated. Trouble is they might not like the answer. It can be calculated yes. They might not like the answer. Its not all about money though. Its about carbon capture and release and protection of the environment (not cutting down trees) I am not an obsessed greenie myself but these will be arguments that deflect from a simple cost comparison. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 8 minutes ago, WTF said: government want to raise the population but we can't deal with the rubbish the current population creates. What makes you think that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asthehills Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 27 minutes ago, Happier diner said: What makes you think that? Agreed. The energy from waste plant is at nowhere near capacity. In fact, if rumours are to be believed they sometimes struggle to keep it going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtleish Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Asthehills said: Agreed. The energy from waste plant is at nowhere near capacity. In fact, if rumours are to be believed they sometimes struggle to keep it going. Could have something to do with gate fees. A couple of skip companies ship waste of island for profit to England. To keep their incinerator fed. Even after shipping its still cheaper the our efw. For any doubters I can provide pics. Edited December 2, 2022 by Turtleish 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 1 hour ago, Asthehills said: Agreed. The energy from waste plant is at nowhere near capacity. In fact, if rumours are to be believed they sometimes struggle to keep it going. Last time I was there it had enough rubbish in the hopper to run at least a month and looked nowhere near empty. So rumour may not be true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2bees Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 Who owns the EFW plant now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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