The Phantom Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Moghrey Mie said: Other countries need their own doctors and dentists. We should be training and employing our own in the UK. There is actually a limit placed upon the Medical Schools in the UK on how many Docs they can train, because they are trained in NHS hospitals and this costs money. 7,500 for this year apparently, however it would appear to not be enough. Bear in mind that a significant percentage of this will quit or fail initially, then go into private or go abroad. https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/it-s-time-to-lift-the-medical-student-cap Edited October 13, 2022 by The Phantom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lurker Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, The Phantom said: There is actually a limit placed upon the Medical Schools in the UK on how many Docs they can train, because they are trained in NHS hospitals and this costs money. 7,500 for this year apparently, however it would appear to not be enough. Bear in mind that a significant percentage of this will quit or fail initially, then go into private or go abroad. https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/it-s-time-to-lift-the-medical-student-cap Added to which it takes five years to qualify as a doctor and at least another three or four before they're competent to the point that they can practise without close supervision. The NHS model has always relied upon skilled immigrants. Ethical considerations about stealing other countries professionals aside; bringing in foreign trained medics and nurses makes strong economic sense. I don't know exactly how much it costs to train a doctor to registrar level and can;t be arsed to look it up but it will be long thousands. We need the staff now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 Just now, The Lurker said: Added to which it takes five years to qualify as a doctor and at least another three or four before they're competent to the point that they can practise without close supervision. The NHS model has always relied upon skilled immigrants. Ethical considerations about stealing other countries professionals aside; bringing in foreign trained medics and nurses makes strong economic sense. I don't know exactly how much it costs to train a doctor to registrar level and can;t be arsed to look it up but it will be long thousands. We need the staff now. I know a Doc who did okay in his first set of A Levels, but not enough for a Med School offer. He re-sat the year, got all As but still couldn't get into a UK Med School (over subscribed anyway and they can get people who get their exams right first time) so he trained at an English language Med School in the Czech Republic with quite a few other Brit Docs that couldn't get on a course (for whatever reason) in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 On 10/12/2022 at 1:24 AM, Numbnuts said: Russians have had basically their money frozen and there's not a chance they would get a visa to travel to the UK in the current circumstances. We aren't at war with Russia though. It's only those with strong links to Putin who have had their assets frozen, there are plenty of Russians happily living in the UK, and the IoM for that matter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 59 minutes ago, Manx17 said: The best way to combat wars , is go to governments and make a stand and say no more. That'll work with Putin. If countries are wanting to boost their population, that country has to find out why people leave, inviting people to stay anywhere without sorting out the issue in the first place. Just means a quick short solution whilst they them (governments) in power at the time look like they are doing something and fill their pension pot. The isle has watched families come and like the Manx children their children leave too. So in ten twenty years there will be more of an aged problem. As governments don’t seem to want to work to a better future. When I say work I mean work hard and make changes. So the future young and their young want to stay. look at the main shopping street of the new found city of Douglas. It’s full of second hand shops and coffee shops ffs. To improve it they think hang a few flower baskets up. Douglas is no worse than many other towns. What can govt do anyway? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbnuts Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Max Power said: We aren't at war with Russia though. It's only those with strong links to Putin who have had their assets frozen, there are plenty of Russians happily living in the UK, and the IoM for that matter. But I think you find the banking industry has made it near impossible for Russians travelling to access cash. Big problems with Russian tourists in many countries. Also a visa is required for Russians travelling to UK. Not sure there will be any rush to issue them . Just my thoughts in this bad situation. Edited October 13, 2022 by Numbnuts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrighty Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 2 hours ago, The Phantom said: I know a Doc who did okay in his first set of A Levels, but not enough for a Med School offer. He re-sat the year, got all As but still couldn't get into a UK Med School (over subscribed anyway and they can get people who get their exams right first time) so he trained at an English language Med School in the Czech Republic with quite a few other Brit Docs that couldn't get on a course (for whatever reason) in the UK. There was a recent article in the BMJ expressing concern at the quality of those courses in Eastern Europe and the competence of the resulting product. The courses are delivered in English, but an essential part of medical school training is interaction with real patients. The lectures on anatomy might be delivered in English, but if the patients only speak a Slavic language I can understand why the docs qualifying from these places might not be as experienced as they should be. There's also the issue of selectivity - it might not apply to your mate, but there are certainly students I've heard of going there because they failed to make the grade but had parents who could afford to buy them in. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad_manx Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 3 hours ago, Moghrey Mie said: Other countries need their own doctors and dentists. We should be training and employing our own in the UK. Wishful thinking. If you have a look at those who have gone for medical training in the UK from the IOM ( taxpayer funded ) not many who trained as specialists have come back to work here.. Island based GP training seems to be an exception and many in a similar situation have come back ( friend of mine is an excellent GP ) which is nice. I suppose it will be impossible to replicate something similar for specialist training due to our location.. 😞 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 9 minutes ago, mad_manx said: Wishful thinking. If you have a look at those who have gone for medical training in the UK from the IOM ( taxpayer funded ) not many who trained as specialists have come back to work here.. Island based GP training seems to be an exception and many in a similar situation have come back ( friend of mine is an excellent GP ) which is nice. I suppose it will be impossible to replicate something similar for specialist training due to our location.. 😞 Specialists won't get as much variety or even numbers of the same type of case here as they would in a hospital across, I suppose. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 49 minutes ago, wrighty said: it might not apply to your mate, but there are certainly students I've heard of going there because they failed to make the grade but had parents who could afford to buy them in. Undoubtedly. He did get decent grades when he re-did his A-levels though. But I distinctly remember him being told by the UK Med schools, "we've got more than enough applicants who get their exams right first time". Which I always found brutally funny yet fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Ship Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 35 minutes ago, Gladys said: Specialists won't get as much variety or even numbers of the same type of case here as they would in a hospital across, I suppose. Three people from my year at school (plus at least one other who I knew from Castle Rushen) went on to medical school. So far as I know only one returned to the Isle of Man. While I was still working in the NHS I met one doctor who had done some sort of training rotation on the Isle of Man. From what I could gather she quite liked being there, but it didn't offer much that would be of use in her career progression and after a few months she found it a bit boring and a bit of a grind compared to living in a city. (I think the most enjoyable bit was the TT! She was German and liked 'bikes...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apple Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 Do we actually need more doctors ? I was told today that the pharmacists (used to be chemists) are now being invited to "assist" GPs in assessing clinical conditions as an alternative. Are the chemists actually connected up IT wise to put their findings and advice into a persons medical records yet so there is actually some accountability ? What records do they have access to. ? As for immigration I would our quota gets determined by the UK Government and the required cash support is provided by them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apple Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 1 minute ago, Ghost Ship said: Three people from my year at school (plus at least one other who I knew from Castle Rushen) went on to medical school. So far as I know only one returned to the Isle of Man. I think one of them is my nephew who is now a GP in Scotland. He would love to come home but.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 10 minutes ago, Apple said: Do we actually need more doctors ? I was told today that the pharmacists (used to be chemists) are now being invited to "assist" GPs in assessing clinical conditions as an alternative. Are the chemists actually connected up IT wise to put their findings and advice into a persons medical records yet so there is actually some accountability ? What records do they have access to. ? As for immigration I would our quota gets determined by the UK Government and the required cash support is provided by them. Based upon the fact that we have huge waiting lists for anything medical, I'd say yes. @wrighty would be the man on the ground to comment though. Frankly, like Australia that has a list of 'in demand' jobs where they'll literally throw a Visa at you, if we had something similar here and we had some refugees that would be willing to do those jobs, I'd say bring as many over as possible. I've 'joked' this a few times, but still semi-serious. There should be someone from the Job Centre/Immigration on the beach at Dover interviewing the rubber boat people as they step ashore. The whole of the UK has significant labour shortages in pretty much every industry. If they can work (I'm sure they'd be grateful of employment) then the more the merrier in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apple Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 6 minutes ago, The Phantom said: The whole of the UK has significant labour shortages in pretty much every industry. Not for too much longer according to economic forecasts. But they have been wrong before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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