Happier diner Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: You realise that solar panels systems come with batteries so the energy can be stored? Not many do. They are really really expensive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 Just now, Happier diner said: Not many do. They are really really expensive Have you seen the price of electricity at the moment? If you had invested in solar panels a year or so ago you would probably be quids in now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 4 hours ago, Steady Eddie said: Agreed but even when you’re charging it at home the electricity in the IOM is generated from GAS turbines. I do really love listening to all these self-righteous eco twats who think they’re saving the planet when all they’re doing is burning more natural gas to keep their ego-boosting vanity statement on the road. It's considerably more efficient to run a car on electricity generated by a sizeable gas turbine than on petrol/diesel burned in a small ICE. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted October 23, 2022 Author Share Posted October 23, 2022 1 hour ago, HiVibes said: Really you don't agree with the need for change then you are just a hypocrit , and are the worst sort, really quite spiteful. Nothing hypocritical, nothing spiteful. I don’t, and won’t, change vehicles for the sake of changing. Think of the environmental damage if we all did that. As for my next car, when the time comes, I’ll weigh up the options, including cost, range, charging time, availability of charging on the routes I travel. If I only travelled on Island I’d probably change to battery sooner rather than later. As most of my mileage is across, and in Europe, runs of 600km plus electric is only starting to be an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 1 hour ago, manxman1980 said: Have you seen the price of electricity at the moment? If you had invested in solar panels a year or so ago you would probably be quids in now. Instead of that...we're reading our bills and heading for Quids Inn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 (edited) 28 minutes ago, HeliX said: It's considerably more efficient to run a car on electricity generated by a sizeable gas turbine than on petrol/diesel burned in a small ICE. at best very very very unlikely, more like no. Edited October 23, 2022 by WTF 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BriT Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 (edited) 34 minutes ago, HeliX said: It's considerably more efficient to run a car on electricity generated by a sizeable gas turbine than on petrol/diesel burned in a small ICE. I’d like to see the data behind such a ridiculous sounding claim. Especially as an EV is more damaging to produce in the first place and needs to be owned for years before the full environmental savings over an ICE vehicle manufacturing emerge. And as has been said above the drivers here aren’t even charging them with clean energy either. Edited October 23, 2022 by BriT 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forestboy Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 1 hour ago, HiVibes said: Really you don't agree with the need for change then you are just a hypocrit , and are the worst sort, really quite spiteful. Idiotic comment yet again from you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BriT Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 1 minute ago, forestboy said: Idiotic comment yet again from you. The worse sort of hypocrite are the ones who can’t even spell hypocrite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted October 23, 2022 Author Share Posted October 23, 2022 43 minutes ago, HeliX said: It's considerably more efficient to run a car on electricity generated by a sizeable gas turbine than on petrol/diesel burned in a small ICE. 16 minutes ago, WTF said: at best very very very unlikely, more like no. 12 minutes ago, BriT said: I’d like to see the data behind such a ridiculous sounding claim. Especially as an EV is more damaging to produce in the first place and needs to be owned for years before the full environmental savings over an ICE vehicle manufacturing emerge. And as has been said above the drivers here aren’t even charging them with clean energy either. It’s marginal, unless electric is generated from renewables. https://sciendo.com/pdf/10.2478/rtuect-2020-0041 Abstract – The tremendous growth in the transportation sector as a result of changes in our ways of transport and a rise in the level of prosperity was reflected directly by the intensification of energy needs. Thus, electric vehicles (EV) have been produced to minimise the energy consumption of conventional vehicles. Although the EV motor is more efficient than the internal combustion engine, the well to wheel (WTW) efficiency should be investigated in terms of determining the overall energy efficiency. In simple words, this study will try to answer the basic question – is the electric car really energy efficient compared with ICE-powered vehicles? This study investigates the WTW efficiency of conventional internal combustion engine vehicles ICEVs (gasoline, diesel), compressed natural gas vehicles (CNGV) and EVs. The results show that power plant efficiency has a significant consequence on WTW efficiency. The total WTW efficiency of gasoline ICEV ranges between 11–27 %, diesel ICEV ranges from 25 % to 37 % and CNGV ranges from 12 % to 22 %. The EV fed by a natural gas power plant shows the highest WTW efficiency which ranges from 13 % to 31 %. While the EV supplied by coal-fired and diesel power plants have approximately the same WTW efficiency ranging between 13 % to 27 % and 12 % to 25 %, respectively. If renewable energy is used, the losses will drop significantly and the overall efficiency for electric cars will be around 40–70 % depending on the source and the location of the renewable energy systems. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BriT Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 20 minutes ago, John Wright said: It’s marginal, unless electric is generated from renewables. https://sciendo.com/pdf/10.2478/rtuect-2020-0041 Thanks I would have expected that to be roughly the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 i'm not convinced of/with those numbers , every time fuel is converted there are losses , to convert diesel in a powerstation into electricity, then transform that electricity down to various voltages over the national grid with the associated voltage drops and then through a battery charger and into a battery to then be used to spin a motor through a speed controller has lots of losses in the chain. to use the diesel directly to spin a crankshaft to go through a gear train and spin the wheels would i would have thought lose less energy. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bastard Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Happier diner said: Not many do. They are really really expensive It's a bit more complex. For the various methods of passive heating of water, or heat-storage like the ZEB, it doesn't stop the show if a cloud goes across the sun for a while, but for solar electric, a battery is a necessity - lots of new setups are using Tesla Powerwalls for example. Some old-school setups use arrays of second-hand/scavenged Lead-acid batteries. Depends on what you're trying to achieve, and whether it's just supplementing mains power, for heating alone, or going semi-independent with your electricity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 50 minutes ago, WTF said: i'm not convinced of/with those numbers , every time fuel is converted there are losses , to convert diesel in a powerstation into electricity, then transform that electricity down to various voltages over the national grid with the associated voltage drops and then through a battery charger and into a battery to then be used to spin a motor through a speed controller has lots of losses in the chain. to use the diesel directly to spin a crankshaft to go through a gear train and spin the wheels would i would have thought lose less energy. If the electricity was being generated by an ICE sized power plant, it would be much less efficient. But scale etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 1 hour ago, John Wright said: It’s marginal, unless electric is generated from renewables. https://sciendo.com/pdf/10.2478/rtuect-2020-0041 Abstract – The tremendous growth in the transportation sector as a result of changes in our ways of transport and a rise in the level of prosperity was reflected directly by the intensification of energy needs. Thus, electric vehicles (EV) have been produced to minimise the energy consumption of conventional vehicles. Although the EV motor is more efficient than the internal combustion engine, the well to wheel (WTW) efficiency should be investigated in terms of determining the overall energy efficiency. In simple words, this study will try to answer the basic question – is the electric car really energy efficient compared with ICE-powered vehicles? This study investigates the WTW efficiency of conventional internal combustion engine vehicles ICEVs (gasoline, diesel), compressed natural gas vehicles (CNGV) and EVs. The results show that power plant efficiency has a significant consequence on WTW efficiency. The total WTW efficiency of gasoline ICEV ranges between 11–27 %, diesel ICEV ranges from 25 % to 37 % and CNGV ranges from 12 % to 22 %. The EV fed by a natural gas power plant shows the highest WTW efficiency which ranges from 13 % to 31 %. While the EV supplied by coal-fired and diesel power plants have approximately the same WTW efficiency ranging between 13 % to 27 % and 12 % to 25 %, respectively. If renewable energy is used, the losses will drop significantly and the overall efficiency for electric cars will be around 40–70 % depending on the source and the location of the renewable energy systems. https://aip.scitation.org/doi/pdf/10.1063/1.5138891 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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