Mini reshuffle

[manxfisherman]

24 minutes ago, Declan said:

 

It would be cool if they increased the tax on car ownership and ring-fenced that money for greener travel initiatives but they don’t because that would be political suicide. 

£184 for a mini, I'd rather they didn't put it up any further thanks.

[Asthehills]

53 minutes ago, doc.fixit said:

Declan,

What do you call green travel initiatives? What would replace wagons? Or tractors? Or personal family transport? (Don't say discredited expensive electric cars).

How does one get a family's shopping for the week? How do tradesmen carry their tools and equipment to sites?

Bear in mind our weather, terrain and distances between the villages and the main shopping centres.

How do folk with mobility issues or aged people or folk with children get around? 

I'm sure that you have all the answers to these questions?

Active travel! 😂

[A fool and his money.....]

7 hours ago, Declan said:

But it's tax for using a vehicle not for using the roads - not all road users pay the tax. So you're actually being less clear. 

Not that vehicle or road are particularly difficult words, so it doesn't matter much what you use. So knock off the "plain speaking - cutting through jargon" bullshit until you actually do that. 

But it isn't tax for using a vehicle. You can perfectly legally use a vehicle all day long  without tax as long as it's not on the public road.

You say not all road users pay tax, that's very true - not all vehicles pay tax either, not everybody with an income pays income tax, not everyone with a toilet pays toilet tax, not every purchase attracts Value Added Tax - ask Lewis Hamilton if you don't believe me.

The point that I believe Stu was making, is that historically it was always called road tax. Road tax is descriptive and universally understood. Nothing has fundamentally changed in what it is charged for, little has changed in the way that you pay it.

So why change the name? Vehicle tax is no more descriptive for the reasons given above. Were the courts full of people who'd inadvertently not paid it because the name didn't make it clear when they should? Was there a public outcry about the poorly named charge for using a vehicle on the road? In other words, was there any need for it to be changed, or is it that some, no doubt highly paid, Civil servant or politician didn't have enough to do and decided it was the easiest way to look important?

Don't get me wrong, if a change in name is necessary then I'm all for it - the change from Halt signs to Stop signs for example, I would imagine was to increase understanding for international drivers and therefore improve safety, great. When the change is just needless bureaucracy though it's only right it should be resisted or at least, as Stu has done, ignored.

[A fool and his money.....]

8 hours ago, Non-Believer said:

Plus some time ago you were good enough to post some figures up here that indicated that only a relatively small percentage of the tax take for this particular duty was actually spent on the roads. Figures also since backed up by statements from Tim Crookall during his brief DOI tenure.

And how much of it is spent on vehicles?

[Declan]

1 hour ago, doc.fixit said:

Declan,

What do you call green travel initiatives? What would replace wagons? Or tractors? Or personal family transport? (Don't say discredited expensive electric cars).

How does one get a family's shopping for the week? How do tradesmen carry their tools and equipment to sites?

Bear in mind our weather, terrain and distances between the villages and the main shopping centres.

How do folk with mobility issues or aged people or folk with children get around? 

I'm sure that you have all the answers to these questions?

To be fair, it wasn't really intended as a practical suggestion. 

Sadly we've built our society around the car, and people have become addicted to them.

BUT if it was possible - it would apply to personal vehicles (including electric - they're still cars), so tradesmen could keep their vans. And obviously there would need to be exceptions for medical need. 

In terms of shopping, I hope a decrease in car ownership would see a rebirth in village and corner shops. But maybe a modern solution would be delivery services. 

Improved public transport, which would be more viable if there was more demand, would solve most of your issues. (You'd have mini-buses around the villages or estates). But increasingly communities would thrive and services would be provided locally. Increasing jobs in the local community and more people moving to WFH would reduce the need to have a car. 

But unfortunately that's just a pipe dream.

[Asthehills]

32 minutes ago, Declan said:

To be fair, it wasn't really intended as a practical suggestion. 

Sadly we've built our society around the car, and people have become addicted to them.

BUT if it was possible - it would apply to personal vehicles (including electric - they're still cars), so tradesmen could keep their vans. And obviously there would need to be exceptions for medical need. 

In terms of shopping, I hope a decrease in car ownership would see a rebirth in village and corner shops. But maybe a modern solution would be delivery services. 

Improved public transport, which would be more viable if there was more demand, would solve most of your issues. (You'd have mini-buses around the villages or estates). But increasingly communities would thrive and services would be provided locally. Increasing jobs in the local community and more people moving to WFH would reduce the need to have a car. 

But unfortunately that's just a pipe dream.

Public transport is a total non starter for most people, just because of our weather.

Plus even at £2 a trip it is expensive compared to running a car.

Two trips each to and from work for me and the wife, twice a day.  Plus another for the Mrs to get the youngest to school (two trips twice a day) and the eldest who can travel on her own still doing two a day.  That is just Monday to Friday and doesn’t factor in clubs or activities.

Hours and hours wasted every week and no cheaper than running g our own vehicle, plus getting piss wet through and having to walk at each end, plus total inflexibility.  
 

No thanks

Edited October 18, 2022 by Asthehills

[wrighty]

6 minutes ago, Asthehills said:

Public transport is a total non starter for most people, just because of our weather.

Plus even at £2 a trip it is expensive compared to running a car.

Two trips each to and from work for me and the wife, twice a day.  Plus another for the Mrs to get the youngest to school (two trips twice a day) and the eldest who can travel on her own still doing two a day.  That is just Monday to Friday and doesn’t factor in clubs or activities.

Hours and hours wasted every week and no cheaper than running g our own vehicle, plus getting piss wet through and having to walk at each end, plus total inflexibility.  
 

No thanks

This. I’d use public transport if there was always one waiting outside my house ready to take me wherever I wanted. Until then I’ll stick with the car. 

[Newsdesk]

8 minutes ago, wrighty said:

This. I’d use public transport if there was always one waiting outside my house ready to take me wherever I wanted. Until then I’ll stick with the car. 

That was Ian Longworths ultimate goal. 

[A fool and his money.....]

Just make it free. Convenience is a fair point, I certainly wouldn't get rid of my car, but if bus fares were free I'm pretty sure its annual mileage would be less than half what it is now. £2 a journey is too much, just as cheap for me to use the car as I'd be taxing and insuring it anyway.

[The Bastard]

17 hours ago, doc.fixit said:

Declan,

What do you call green travel initiatives? What would replace wagons? Or tractors? Or personal family transport? (Don't say discredited expensive electric cars).

How does one get a family's shopping for the week? How do tradesmen carry their tools and equipment to sites?

Bear in mind our weather, terrain and distances between the villages and the main shopping centres.

How do folk with mobility issues or aged people or folk with children get around? 

I'm sure that you have all the answers to these questions?

What do you call green travel initiatives? What would replace wagons? Or tractors? Or personal family transport? (Don't say discredited expensive electric cars). 

There's always going to be a niche for ICE vehicles in certain areas, but the majority of vehicles can move to zero-emission.

In the long term, commercial vehicles and family transport will move to alternative fuels such as electric. Lots of commercial enterprises and UK councils are already using electric and hybrid vehicles instead, and alternative fuels such as Hydrogen are a niche, but growing, market.

Personal family transport - get an electric/hybrid car (Citroen Ami urban runabout is being advertised from £19.99 a month on PCP), electric bike, an electric scooter, an electric cargo bike, an electric motorcycle, call a taxi, get a bus. 

How does one get a family's shopping for the week ?

Get it delivered, use an electric vehicle, walk or use a cargo bike. Loads of people already use delivery from Tesco and the rest. Challenges - capacity needs to increase.

How do folk with mobility issues or aged people or folk with children get around? 

Same as they do now. Mobility scooters, buses, trains, trams, taxis, electric vehicles, electric bikes, scooters, electric cargo bikes, walk.  

[WTF]

14 hours ago, A fool and his money..... said:

 £2 a journey is too much, just as cheap for me to use the car as I'd be taxing and insuring it anyway.

that depends on the journey length and whether you have to pay for parking when you get there. also adding mileage to your vehicle decreases the life span of the brakes and tyres etc

[Banker]

14 hours ago, A fool and his money..... said:

Just make it free. Convenience is a fair point, I certainly wouldn't get rid of my car, but if bus fares were free I'm pretty sure its annual mileage would be less than half what it is now. £2 a journey is too much, just as cheap for me to use the car as I'd be taxing and insuring it anyway.

Doubt you could do Ramsey to Douglas return in your car for £4 unless it runs on dogs shit 😀 

[wrighty]

38 minutes ago, Banker said:

Doubt you could do Ramsey to Douglas return in your car for £4 unless it runs on dogs shit 😀 

It might be possible, just. You’d need to be getting 62 mpg or thereabouts to do it. I can get 40 in my car if I drive like a priest, so it’ll cost me £6.20. (Obviously this doesn’t include tax, insurance, depreciation, servicing which for a car like mine I guess is about £100 a week 😳)

[Jarndyce]

4 minutes ago, wrighty said:

if I drive like a priest

I’m intrigued - how does a priest drive?

[quilp]

On a wing and a prayer, I believe.