Numbnuts Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 1 hour ago, Shake me up Judy said: Sheepskin underpants can be very itchy. You got them on inside out ! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 7 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said: Right so; Firstly you think "democracy is Irrelevant here" - you then go on to justify your statement by saying most people would agree with you. I guess what you're really saying is that democracy is irrelevant, until such point that it agrees with your opinion, then it becomes extremely relevant and can be used to justify your opinion. It never ceases to amaze me how any form of logic is completely dispensed with when some people discuss the British monarchy. It's like people who used to argue that the Queen shouldn't be democratically elected because she was so popular! Democracy is a form of government in which the people have the authority to deliberate and decide legislation, or to choose governing officials to do so ( Wikipedia and others) Its got nothing to do with a response or opinion to a question you may ask, or be asked on the street, or the Clapham omnibus. Governments ( at least in this part of the world) are democratically elected. Peoples opinion on the monarchy, and whether they should make official visits to other parts of the world is, as I said previously, nothing to do with democracy. It’s their opinion which I believe would be largely supportive. You really need to do some research before spouting off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2112 Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 The NPM reports that CM Cannans South Africa Safari jaunt cost the taxpayers, £10,213.36 (£8400 on travelling expenses - so presumably No Economy classs) for himself and a civil servant. Whether that represents value for money is extremely debatable. Will the GMP be getting progress reports as to what business the island is getting as a result of its South African jaunt? What other costs were paid by the taxpayers associated to this trip apart from travelling expenses, hotels, meals and expenses? Who arranged these ‘roadshows’ and meetings at hotels? Was it done for nothing by the kindness of people who love the IOM? I doubt it. My issue is wasting money on pie in the sky schemes, unless it’s to sign contracts or a guarantee of bringing over significant island investment. Photo opportunities, glad handing and IOMG press releases don’t provide employment or certainly create investment. After all El Presidente and other numpties went to China, and zero investment was brought back ……. not even one out of 5 Chinese banks. Ex CM Quayle (as Health Minister) went with his new biker mate Charters to New Zealand to supposedly look at their healthcare model. Enough said. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 Never mind the cost of the trip. What was the real business of the trip ? Did it involve new residents and online gambling for instance ? 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2112 Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 8 minutes ago, Shake me up Judy said: Never mind the cost of the trip. What was the real business of the trip ? Did it involve new residents and online gambling for instance ? To me it looks like a speculative trip, as opposed to work done behind the scenes, and agreements to be signed upon completion. If it was successful you can be assured that IOMG will be dick waving for months of their success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Buggane Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 3 hours ago, 2112 said: To me it looks like a speculative trip, as opposed to work done behind the scenes, and agreements to be signed upon completion. If it was successful you can be assured that IOMG will be dick waving for months of their success. All it was, a pleasure trip. I've worked hard so I deserve a few days off in the sunshine, Trevor said come on over I'll throw a springbok on the barbie and see how we can shift me money and family to the island. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manx Bean Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 22 minutes ago, Dirty Buggane said: All it was, a pleasure trip. I've worked hard so I deserve a few days off in the sunshine, Trevor said come on over I'll throw a springbok on the barbie and see how we can shift me money and family to the island. Spot on. A pure fucking jolly. Look me in the eyes Alfie lad and tell me I’m wrong.. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2112 Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 5 hours ago, Dirty Buggane said: All it was, a pleasure trip. I've worked hard so I deserve a few days off in the sunshine, Trevor said come on over I'll throw a springbok on the barbie and see how we can shift me money and family to the island. I bet CM Cannan has more ‘International Roadshow’ type jollies lined up - of course in the national interest. Bahrain was done, I’m sure Saudi Arabia will be next, followed by the UAE. I doubt that CM Cannan will be able to produce any facts and figures, both to justify these trips success, or point to any ‘new’ inward investment (as opposed to additional investment by firms based in the island, who would have made additional investment, even without back to their parent firms headquarters) in the island resulting from the trip and subsequent meetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A fool and his money..... Posted January 3, 2023 Author Share Posted January 3, 2023 21 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said: Democracy is a form of government in which the people have the authority to deliberate and decide legislation, or to choose governing officials to do so ( Wikipedia and others) Its got nothing to do with a response or opinion to a question you may ask, or be asked on the street, or the Clapham omnibus. Governments ( at least in this part of the world) are democratically elected. Peoples opinion on the monarchy, and whether they should make official visits to other parts of the world is, as I said previously, nothing to do with democracy. It’s their opinion which I believe would be largely supportive. You really need to do some research before spouting off The Queen was the head of state in the UK during her reign. As you rightly say, that has nothing to with democracy - a process which takes people's opinions into account. Why then should those same people's opinions be relevant when (you believe) they agree with yours regarding the Queen? I appreciate that you were only advocating a street "straw poll or vox pops", after all why bother with the increased cost or accuracy of an election when you're making things up as you go along? The point is if "democracy is irrelevant here", you can't then proceed to use people's opinions (or your guess as to what they are) to justify your point. People's opinions are either relevant or not, make your mind up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Christian Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 (edited) This is another un-winnable argument. Stay at home on the island and watch the investment opportunities go to other places- the gov are rubbish; go and build relationships to build business and investment - the gov are on jollies. Any business knows that you don’t grow with investment and build relationships by being sat at home - even on zoom. However, this is MF and therefore whatever the gov does is wrong so they can’t win. Can you actually quantify the value of these trips? No not directly. But then many BD trips and investment in travel for business can’t be quantified. All I know is that you don’t build relationships and encourage investment and grow by sitting at home. here comes the shouting…. Edited January 3, 2023 by Steve_Christian Spelling 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apple Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 3 hours ago, Steve_Christian said: here comes the shouting…. I'm not shouting. Not my style. Not sure if this would be the right thread but having listened to various UK ministers about the striking railway and NHS workers et a and their speeches about reforms before they will even consider pay arrangements why don't we insist that before any further pay to any elected officials we ask the public what sort of reforms they think should be required first? I think I am asleep......😴 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asitis Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 9 hours ago, Steve_Christian said: Can you actually quantify the value of these trips? No not directly. But then many BD trips and investment in travel for As money gets tighter, anything that can't be judged on it's merits should be looked at very closely. Can't be quantified was Teares mantra, with his bed night bullshit and the film fund !. Unless there is a measurable and evidenced benefit to spending the dwindling pot of other peoples money, then great care should be taken authorising it ! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 10 hours ago, Steve_Christian said: This is another un-winnable argument. Stay at home on the island and watch the investment opportunities go to other places- the gov are rubbish; go and build relationships to build business and investment - the gov are on jollies. Any business knows that you don’t grow with investment and build relationships by being sat at home - even on zoom. However, this is MF and therefore whatever the gov does is wrong so they can’t win. Can you actually quantify the value of these trips? No not directly. But then many BD trips and investment in travel for business can’t be quantified. All I know is that you don’t build relationships and encourage investment and grow by sitting at home. here comes the shouting…. In my experience video conferencing is absolutely fine and you can get a lot of work and business done using it. However you have to face-to-face to build trust. As I wouldn't trust a politician further than I could throw a steamroller then the law of diminishing returns applies... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 I've asked this question before and am still waiting for an answer from anybody; With the passage of time and the benefit of hindsight what were the quantifiable benefits to the taxpayers of the trips to Westminster, the Falkland Islands and New Zealand? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Christian Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 7 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: I've asked this question before and am still waiting for an answer from anybody; With the passage of time and the benefit of hindsight what were the quantifiable benefits to the taxpayers of the trips to Westminster, the Falkland Islands and New Zealand? Lol I don’t think MF will give you the answer. If you actually want an answer you should speak to the MHKs directly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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