More Jollies

[Non-Believer]

On 11/3/2022 at 10:41 PM, Anyone said:

No , you expect too much. They start out with the best of intentions but then ….

Assimilation. Putty in the hands of the CS who would have administered the visit, reward for compliance, toeing the line and not rocking too many boats.

'Twas ever thus.

[KERED]

11 hours ago, A fool and his money..... said:

And what benefit does meeting the speaker, his deputy and a number of MPs and Peers have for the IOM in general? What issues did you discuss, what deals did you do, when will we see the benefit?

Nobody has suggested that it was an orgy of living high on the hog, merely that it was a complete waste of taxpayers' money, which, given the present increasing financial predicament many of those taxpayers are facing, is tone deaf and misjudged to put it mildly.

Nobody is trying to get you back in a bucket either. Fair play to you for standing and being elected, you have my respect for that. But you're the one who's choosing to defend the trip. Good on you for doing it publicly and engaging with us, I respect that too. The criticism of the trip is not aimed at you personally (at least my criticism isn't), and as you have said, you're far from the worst offender. It has nothing to do with crabs either. You can go on as many business trips as you like, I'm happy you're doing well.

I do think though that when you expect myself and my increasingly impoverished fellow taxpayers to foot the considerable bill, that it's not unreasonable for us to expect to know what the benefit is. That's exactly the kind of common sense, no bullshit expectation on which you were elected. It's very nice that you met some people while you were there, but where, when and in what form will we see the benefit of our investment?

Thank you for a very rational and well-reasoned response.

[P.K.]

11 hours ago, 2112 said:

Our Tynpotwalders didn’t need to go to Westminster to see Mr Speaker, Lindsey Hoyle MP Chorley, who I believe is a ‘friend’ of the island and has been here on visits a few times. Again any meetings could have been conducted on zoom. 

In business you have to face-to-face to build trust. Zoom etc just doesn't cut it I'm afraid. Unfortunately, as lying has become the norm certainly on the tory side, I wouldn't trust a member of the HoC further than I could throw a JCB...

However I would like to meet Lindsey Hoyle. Just so that I could ask him why is he so f~cking useless that he has allowed Hansard to be filled with lies...?

[Freggyragh]

On 10/31/2022 at 9:31 PM, Gladys said:

No.  Sorry Stu.

The point is this trip is not checking in with our parent, it is checking in with a very close and influential neighbour.  

It is not to show the great drawings we have done, for a metaphorical 'well done' and we'll put that on the fridge. It is to do with being a mature and confident neighbour, unafraid to raise a contentious issue, because we are mature enough to discuss it.  We are not, or should not be, checking in with our parent. 

Exactly. Our representatives should be pointing out that whilst perhaps being aligned with the UK has been mostly mutually beneficial in the past, and the links we have are strong, there are other countries we could align with that have far better trade advantages and all round better governance. To back that up, our MHKs should be working a little harder at exploring what other countries might offer. 

[John Wright]

1 hour ago, Freggyragh said:

Exactly. Our representatives should be pointing out that whilst perhaps being aligned with the UK has been mostly mutually beneficial in the past, and the links we have are strong, there are other countries we could align with that have far better trade advantages and all round better governance. To back that up, our MHKs should be working a little harder at exploring what other countries might offer. 

Care to offer up any suggestions as to which other countries?

And like Brexit with UK/EU wouldn’t Mexit IoM/UK be extremely damaging given 95% of our trade, 95% of our travel links, and a large part of our cultural links are UK. Plus the fact we are in a long term currency Union, customs Union and single market with UK, which precludes freedom of trade advantages and alignment with anywhere else.

[Gladys]

8 minutes ago, John Wright said:

Care to offer up any suggestions as to which other countries?

And like Brexit with UK/EU wouldn’t Mexit IoM/UK be extremely damaging given 95% of our trade, 95% of our travel links, and a large part of our cultural links are UK. Plus the fact we are in a long term currency Union, customs Union and single market with UK, which precludes freedom of trade advantages and alignment.

Yes, but it would stop all those comeovers, erm, coming over!😉

[Derek Flint]

On 10/31/2022 at 9:20 PM, Gladys said:

Except the UK is not our parent. 

I’ll think you will find it is. 

Just because you’ve got a bit of independence once you leave home doesn’t alter the bloodline

[Two-lane]

13 hours ago, A fool and his money..... said:

And what benefit does meeting the speaker, his deputy and a number of MPs and Peers have for the IOM in general? What issues did you discuss, what deals did you do, when will we see the benefit?

In other circumstances the participants would be required to present a written summary of the event.

[A fool and his money.....]

37 minutes ago, John Wright said:

Care to offer up any suggestions as to which other countries?

And like Brexit with UK/EU wouldn’t Mexit IoM/UK be extremely damaging given 95% of our trade, 95% of our travel links, and a large part of our cultural links are UK. Plus the fact we are in a long term currency Union, customs Union and single market with UK, which precludes freedom of trade advantages and alignment.

Yes, what about the Republic of Ireland? Equal proximity with established transport links, still a member of the EU, has an increasingly strong currency with respect to GBP. Also has a stronger passport, is well represented internationally and has strong cultural and historical links to the island. Its defence and foreign policy is a lot more palatable than the UK's. The list goes on.

[Gladys]

17 minutes ago, Derek Flint said:

I’ll think you will find it is. 

Just because you’ve got a bit of independence once you leave home doesn’t alter the bloodline

You need to read the rest of the thread.  

[Asthehills]

11 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said:

Yes, what about the Republic of Ireland? Equal proximity with established transport links, still a member of the EU, has an increasingly strong currency with respect to GBP. Also has a stronger passport, is well represented internationally and has strong cultural and historical links to the island. Its defence and foreign policy is a lot more palatable than the UK's. The list goes on.

Yeah, let’s do it next week.

Should be simple enough and I can’t see any downsides or complications.

[A fool and his money.....]

2 minutes ago, Asthehills said:

Yeah, let’s do it next week.

Should be simple enough and I can’t see any downsides or complications.

Ah right, stick it in the too hard pile then despite the benefits, you should stand for the Keys, you'd fit right in.

[Dirty Buggane]

1 hour ago, Freggyragh said:

Exactly. Our representatives should be pointing out that whilst perhaps being aligned with the UK has been mostly mutually beneficial in the past, and the links we have are strong, there are other countries we could align with that have far better trade advantages and all round better governance. To back that up, our MHKs should be working a little harder at exploring what other countries might offer. 

Do not, I repeat DO NOT give them any ideas. And this means the CS. All you need is one prick in the cs saying I could talk one of the elected numpty's into a fact finding governance trip to the Bahamas, to examine goat cheese production (mentioning no names Daph) of course some one would have to accompany to smooth the political way. No reason why it should not be me. Will book coach but due to mix up will be moved to business, we have all these air miles and as soon as mention government airlines like to fawn over you.

Wonder which cs wanted to go to South Africa or New Zealand.

[John Wright]

41 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said:

Yes, what about the Republic of Ireland? Equal proximity with established transport links, still a member of the EU, has an increasingly strong currency with respect to GBP. Also has a stronger passport, is well represented internationally and has strong cultural and historical links to the island. Its defence and foreign policy is a lot more palatable than the UK's. The list goes on.

You’ve missed the point im making. There’s next to no freight link with Ireland. There is one, maybe two, planes a day. Sailings once per week end May  to start September. Look at the mess the NI Protocol is causing.

Id happily align with many places, in theory, but I don’t want passport and ID issues with UK, nor customs or qualitative or quantitative restrictions on bringing things over.

[A fool and his money.....]

46 minutes ago, John Wright said:

You’ve missed the point im making. There’s next to no freight link with Ireland. There is one, maybe two, planes a day. Sailings once per week end May  to start September. Look at the mess the NI Protocol is causing.

Id happily align with many places, in theory, but I don’t want passport and ID issues with UK, nor customs or qualitative or quantitative restrictions on bringing things over.

But we own a ferry company with a newly acquired freight ship and a soon to be expanded fleet of ferries. The transport links are almost entirely within our control.

I'm not suggesting we cut ties with the UK entirely, merely saying there would be undoubted advantages in aligning ourselves with Ireland. It's part of a common travel are which includes both ourselves and the UK, you can travel to Ireland without passport control presently, why would travelling to the UK be any different if we aligned with Ireland?

For me the two main problems with our attachment to the UK are, the millions we pay them for "defence" despite the fact they've never defended us against anything nor are they likely to - instead they spend the money on frequent involvement in foreign conflicts with which I don't agree and have no democratic input.

And Brexit- five years ago I could travel or work within the EU for as long as I liked - now it's 3 months max, then I have to leave for three months before I can return. I had no democratic say in this decision and I don't believe such curtailment of personal freedoms is befitting of a 21st century democracy, it's not progressive or something to aspire two.

Both these problems would be solved by aligning with the ROI rather than the UK. It makes sense in many other ways too. I know it wouldn't be without its challenges and would take a bit of effort but I don't see that as a reason to dismiss it out of hand. Sadly I don't believe it will ever happen - our politicians lack the imagination, drive and wit to make it happen, also I think too many British egos within our political and civil service would be bruised. The idea that a world exists beyond the UK is an alien notion to many.