More Jollies

[woolley]

3 hours ago, A fool and his money..... said:

You may well be right, but is being a tax haven still working for us? It may have done for a while, but where are we now after 40 odd years of it? Is it going to sustain us into the future? I get that some people do very well out of it, the island as a whole though, I'm not so sure.

What is beyond doubt is that the island has and continues to sacrifice much to be a tax haven. If you're suggesting that we have no choice but to sacrifice democracy on fundamental decisions in order to carry it on then I for one don't believe it's worth it. It's not as if we haven't given it a chance, but the increasingly popular food banks, the striking key workers, the health service waiting lists, the crumbling roads, the inability of our young people to afford housing, chronic labour shortages, non-existent switch to renewable energy etc etc etc, would suggest that it isn't working particularly well.

If our old and tried "USP" isn't supporting us and is restricting us as you suggest, then perhaps we need a new one.

I would say it is working for us if you look for alternatives. It's cold out there. I worry that you are overestimating what we may be sacrificing. I certainly hear what you say about poverty and the shortcomings in our infrastructure. I'm not convinced that there is a convenient answer. It's a hell of a leap of faith. Democracy - in whatever form you wish it to take in the future - is nice but it won't pay the bills.

2 hours ago, A fool and his money..... said:

Well you don't do it overnight, but it does require some political will, effort, bravery and imagination.

We potentially have a lot going for us economically. For one we have our size. We're tiny, we only need a very small share of any particular industry to sustain us, we don't need to be unique.

Secondly is our people. We are an extremely law abiding, politically stable people who just get on with it. Whinging on MF is about as radical as it gets here. We've lived in a highly inequitable society for 40 years because we've been told it's good for us.

We have the natural resources of the future in abundance. Wind, tides, sunshine, hills, rainfall,  we have it all in very close proximity. We should at the very least be an international test site for renewable technology. Given we also have central government planning control we could already be a world leader in the exploitation of renewables as well as a major exporter. At the very least we should be wholly self sufficient energy-wise.

But nothing has been done. As you say, government's idea of diversifying the economy is to introduce different types of tax dodging. Sooner or later we're going to have to face the fact that our cash cow is dying. Tax justice is ever more important in the world, our relationship with the EU has been diminished, importing more people won't fix our woes. Necessity is the mother of invention, but these things take time, better start now before we're even more impoverished.

"You don't do it overnight...." Well you do if, as you proposed, we are telling the UK to take a hike to hook up with Ireland instead. That doesn't sound like the kind of thing that you can do by instalments.

You are preaching to the converted about diversification. I have spent my career building businesses that specifically don't rely on the local market, or exclusively on the finance sector. Your list of activities for investment is impressive, but right now we have home rule. We are masters of our own destiny to the extent that we can do any of the things you advocate without reference to anyone outside. As you say, we could be doing them already while we still have the income from the finance centre to sustain us. We can have Plan B while we still have Plan A contributing. Seems a strange plan to ditch Plan A, which make no mistake, we would have to do without British sovereignty, before we have anything tangible with which to replace it.

In conclusion, I would add that epitaphs have been written to the global network of tax havens for as far back as I can remember. In spite of this, they probably handle more wealth now than at any time in history. Predictions of their demise have always been premature, a bit similar to the oil industry.

[woolley]

1 hour ago, CallMeCurious said:

Look where Pinewood and the Manx Hollywood got us.   
 

 

A lot of money, actually.

[woolley]

1 hour ago, CallMeCurious said:

Geriatric tourism won't last as that seems to be based on the return of northerners who used to come for family holidays in the heyday. They will fade away as the Costa holiday brigade replace them.

 

To be fair those geriatrics come from all over the country.

[Roger Mexico]

1 hour ago, CallMeCurious said:

Geriatirc tourism won't last as that seems to be based on the return of northerners who used to come for family holidays in the heyday. They will fade away as the Costa holiday brigade replace them. 

Except that the tourists started going to the Costas in the 60s and 70s, so those who were young adults then are geriatrics now.  People's tastes change with age.  There are considerable problems for the tourism sector - as with so much else relating to accommodation and housing.  But there are markets out there - even if we are rubbish at attracting them.

[Roger Mexico]

Getting back to topic, it's worth pointing out that if this latest shindig was really a useful place to exchange ideas and experiences, then you would expect to see a lot of Ministers and Board Chairs going to meet their counterparts and compare experiences.  In actual fact the list of attendees:

• The Hon. Juan Watterson SHK

• Mrs Claire Christian MHK

• Mr Paul Craine MLC

• Mr Peter Greenhill MLC

• Dr Michelle Haywood MHK

• Mr Tim Johnston MHK 

• Mrs Sarah Maltby MHK

• Mrs Kerry Sharpe MLC

is  practically the same as went on the Westminster trip - relative newbies shepherded by Mr Speaker.  Wannenburgh, Glover and Peters aren't going, but Craine is.  Of course if Housing is an important topic, you'd think having the two DoI DMs (Glover and Peters) there might be a good idea.  According to the press release This year’s event will include presentations and discussions on ‘The Housing Crisis in the Crown Dependencies’ and ‘General Elections in Small Jurisdictions’. All three CDs (Jersey parliamentarians are popping over to Guernsey as well) have had fairly recent elections and the only thing we can say is that ours wasn't as bonkers as theirs (especially Guernsey).

One good thing is that, like the Westminster jaunt, this is under the auspices of the CPA, so it's likely that they're paying for most of it. As ever those who get something out of it will be those who do the research beforehand and know what questions to ask.

[Non-Believer]

Under the current economic circumstances, these visits simply serve to show taxpayers with any interest in local politics just how quickly willing new snouts are taught the width and depth of the trough, IMHO.

[Apple]

18 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

• The Hon. Juan Watterson SHK

• Mrs Claire Christian MHK

• Mr Paul Craine MLC

• Mr Peter Greenhill MLC

• Dr Michelle Haywood MHK

• Mr Tim Johnston MHK 

• Mrs Sarah Maltby MHK

• Mrs Kerry Sharpe MLC

I'm sorry but when I read about this all I can hear is the song "Mary had  a little lamb"......

Poor show in the current economic circumstances but I'm sure it serves a range of wider political and narcissistic purposes...

[CallMeCurious]

23 hours ago, woolley said:

A lot of money, actually.

https://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/politics/film-fund-wrote-off-ps27m-222674

£27m write-off a mirage then?

 

[woolley]

1 hour ago, CallMeCurious said:

https://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/politics/film-fund-wrote-off-ps27m-222674

£27m write-off a mirage then?

 

Yes. Pretty much.

[A fool and his money.....]

On 11/30/2022 at 11:44 PM, Roger Mexico said:

 

One good thing is that, like the Westminster jaunt, this is under the auspices of the CPA, so it's likely that they're paying for most of it. 

And how is the CPA funded?

[Omobono]

Don't think the CPA funded it ,and the members travelling will also claim expenses , I bet its cost between six and ten grand ,and I don't think any of those who went had anything to do with housing on the island ,which apparently was the purpose of the visit , to study their  housing policy , amongst other things ,

[Roger Mexico]

17 hours ago, Omobono said:

Don't think the CPA funded it ,and the members travelling will also claim expenses , I bet its cost between six and ten grand ,and I don't think any of those who went had anything to do with housing on the island ,which apparently was the purpose of the visit , to study their  housing policy , amongst other things ,

Well expenses claimed (including travel and accommodation) are here, and the answer seems to be "It depends".  Some CPA stuff is clearly reclaimed in full by Tynwald, because there are entries there which are all zeros.  Some is travel only - presumably the hosts organise and pay for accommodation.  There's nothing there for the Westminster visit, but the previous one in March 2017 seems to have been paid for by Tynwald, so maybe it's just slow getting processed. 

The Channel Islands shindig seems to be an annual event and last year's to Jersey was again paid by Tynwald, costing a total of  £4,464.40.  Again it was mainly (even newer) newbies and no Ministers, so it's difficult to see what they could have contributed when some had only been MHKs for six weeks.

[The Voice of Reason]

2 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

The Channel Islands shindig seems to be an annual event and last year's to Jersey was again paid by Tynwald, costing a total of  £4,464.40.  Again it was mainly (even newer) newbies and no Ministers, so it's difficult to see what they could have contributed when some had only been MHKs for six weeks.

Well being newbies it’s probably not so much what they could have contributed, more what they could have learnt.

[asitis]

9 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Well being newbies it’s probably not so much what they could have contributed, more what they could have learnt.

We've been learning lessons for thirty years but look where we still are !

[Holte End]

1 hour ago, asitis said:

We've been learning lessons for thirty years but look where we still are !

You could call it a learning curve , but this is more of a learning wave. The taxpayers wave goodbye to our hard earned taxes.