UK budget changes to be the same here?

[Hoops]

12 hours ago, John Wright said:

It was illustrative for the purpose of showing, in stark terms,  that we are highly taxed already. But there are exceptions. The ones I identified plus capital taxation ( capital gains, wealth tax and inheritance taxation ).

And those are non progressive, regressive, from a taxation view point. They mean that the poorest and middle earners pay a much greater proportion of their income in tax than the highest earners.

If we want great, or even good, health and social welfare, and education, and a move to a greener future it has to be paid for. Either by individuals privately ( leaving many without ) or by sharing the burden and benefits through the medium of tax funding and universality of provision.

Interestingly, I was talking to my son last night, saying that if we want Swedish social care etc (Although not going so well over there either, these days) we'd have to pay Swedish taxes ('We' being the UK). He said we pretty much do, when you add everything up, but get a USA level of services!

He was on a national radio station panel yesterday, saying that the state pension should be means tested. Causing some upset, but I think he has a point..................

[Ringy Rose]

1 hour ago, Hoops said:

He was on a national radio station panel yesterday, saying that the state pension should be means tested. Causing some upset, but I think he has a point

That'll be the next wheeze to make us younger people pay for the boomer generation. I get to pay tax for someone else's state pension now and when I retire I get fuck all. What an idea.

Especially as I already have to work two years more than a boomer, despite decreasing life expectancy, and I fully expect to not be able to retire till 70.

The state pension should be universal. After all, it *is* taxable income, so rich recipients of it continue to pay income tax.

Edited November 18, 2022 by Ringy Rose

[John Wright]

13 hours ago, Gladys said:

Because shareholders are not employed by the company.  Unless they are also directors, or even employees. 

The tricky bit is when a shareholder with no official position in the company still 'runs' it.  It is a part of the "entrepreneurial pysche" to have an adversity to not getting involved. 

ETA to correct. 

Yes, and no. But you, or a partnership, can build up a business, once established you’ve been paying tax and class 2 & 4. Then you set up a company, sell the business at a valuation confirmed by accountants. No money changes hands. There’s a book keeping entry showing a loan for the purchase price.

For the first few years there are no dividends, just loan repayment out of profit. No taxes or NI for anyone. The shareholders will pay themselves a tiny salary, about £600 a month to pay £0.20 a year in NI and maintain their pension contributions. ( it’s cheaper than class 3 voluntary - and spouses can be paid for the same benefit ). They may pay dividends to ensure they receive full benefit of tax free allowances and drag out the time the loan is repaid over.

Once the loan is repaid, then it’s the lowest salary for NI pension record. Then dividends that attract tax but no NI, not even class 2 or class 4.

[The Bastard]

VED for EV's makes good sense, but the "fuel" for EVs can't be taxed in the same way as petrol and diesel, so it won't solve the longer term loss.

Petrol and diesel duty should increase in the meantime - ICEs are wheezy, noisy, slow old tech that chuck out cancer-causing pollutants along with greenhouse gases. It's only fair to tax polluters on consumption.

I know some of the old gammons still regard EVs as heresy and a threat to their fragile masculinity, but EV technology is developing rapidly and EVs are already faster than petrol.

EVs are still developing, but with the massive weight of research and development that's going into them, and the shift in the industry towards EV as the "standard", change is inevitable. Best to go with it rather than digging our heels in.

[Banker]

Another good thing for those who build up large pensions pots is to transfer into SIP they then take the tax free amount over a period of years so getting an annual income but paying no tax on it . Vast majority have to pay income tax in pensions but wealthy avoid it for several years 

[WTF]

1 hour ago, The Bastard said:

VED for EV's makes good sense, but the "fuel" for EVs can't be taxed in the same way as petrol and diesel, so it won't solve the longer term loss.

Petrol and diesel duty should increase in the meantime - ICEs are wheezy, noisy, slow old tech that chuck out cancer-causing pollutants along with greenhouse gases. It's only fair to tax polluters on consumption.

I know some of the old gammons still regard EVs as heresy and a threat to their fragile masculinity, but EV technology is developing rapidly and EVs are already faster than petrol.

EVs are still developing, but with the massive weight of research and development that's going into them, and the shift in the industry towards EV as the "standard", change is inevitable. Best to go with it rather than digging our heels in.

i'm wondering about the availability of enough battery material to power all vehicles electrically  ,  lithium is not an eco or user friendly material either .

[The Bastard]

4 minutes ago, WTF said:

i'm wondering about the availability of enough battery material to power all vehicles electrically  ,  lithium is not an eco or user friendly material either .

True, but fortunately EVs don't continuously distribute Lithium out of an exhaust pipe, in the same way that ICEs did with lead, and continue to do with carcinogenic diesel particulates, unburned hydrocarbons and other noxious waste. Barring a serious accident, the battery contents of an EV are encapsulated for the lifespan of the vehicle, and can be recycled at end of life.

[doc.fixit]

The electricity production and transmission pollutes whatever its method!

[0bserver]

58 minutes ago, WTF said:

i'm wondering about the availability of enough battery material to power all vehicles electrically  ,  lithium is not an eco or user friendly material either .

I'm wondering about our capacity to provide the electricity to run the things.

[WTF]

1 hour ago, The Bastard said:

True, but fortunately EVs don't continuously distribute Lithium out of an exhaust pipe, in the same way that ICEs did with lead, and continue to do with carcinogenic diesel particulates, unburned hydrocarbons and other noxious waste. Barring a serious accident, the battery contents of an EV are encapsulated for the lifespan of the vehicle, and can be recycled at end of life.

all true, but there are a lot of serious accidents on the roads and add to that that EV's seem quite capable of self combusting while charging without any need for an accident as a catalyst.  EV's will cause some serious fires in the next 10 years especially when parked next to another EV which will become more common ,  lining up lithium batteries for a bonfire is never going to be a good idea.  i'm not aware yet of an electric truck  ( come on tesla ) that has burned out ,  the batteries in a car are a nightmare to deal with once burning , a truck will be carrying a lot more KWH of batteries and far more of a problem for fire brigade personnel.

Edited November 18, 2022 by WTF

[Boris Johnson]

37 minutes ago, WTF said:

all true, but there are a lot of serious accidents on the roads and add to that that EV's seem quite capable of self combusting while charging without any need for an accident as a catalyst.  EV's will cause some serious fires in the next 10 years especially when parked next to another EV which will become more common ,  lining up lithium batteries for a bonfire is never going to be a good idea.  i'm not aware yet of an electric truck  ( come on tesla ) that has burned out ,  the batteries in a car are a nightmare to deal with once burning , a truck will be carrying a lot more KWH of batteries and far more of a problem for fire brigade personnel.

I read or watched somewhere that there are batteries being developed that use sodium, IIRC,  in place of Lithium

I am not a chemist but they both end in ium so it must be a good idea  🙂

 

 

 

[The Bastard]

38 minutes ago, WTF said:

all true, but there are a lot of serious accidents on the roads and add to that that EV's seem quite capable of self combusting while charging without any need for an accident as a catalyst.  EV's will cause some serious fires in the next 10 years especially when parked next to another EV which will become more common ,  lining up lithium batteries for a bonfire is never going to be a good idea.  i'm not aware yet of an electric truck  ( come on tesla ) that has burned out ,  the batteries in a car are a nightmare to deal with once burning , a truck will be carrying a lot more KWH of batteries and far more of a problem for fire brigade personnel.

Good points. But as opposed to say, a number of vehicles filled with volatile hydrocarbons which explode and go on fire all the time already ? What about petrol tankers, fuel stations, which make a battery fire look like an indoor firework ?

Battery fires have not yet led to a catastrophe on that scale, and the best approach is apparently to let the battery box burn itself out, then deal with the fire, which minimises the time on site. Probably needs new methods, new equipment in the same way as fire crews had to learn to deal with petrol fires in the past.

[John Wright]

6 minutes ago, The Bastard said:

Good points. But as opposed to say, a number of vehicles filled with volatile hydrocarbons which explode and go on fire all the time already ? What about petrol tankers, fuel stations, which make a battery fire look like an indoor firework ?

Battery fires have not yet led to a catastrophe on that scale, and the best approach is apparently to let the battery box burn itself out, then deal with the fire, which minimises the time on site. Probably needs new methods, new equipment in the same way as fire crews had to learn to deal with petrol fires in the past.

Battery fires have sunk a large car transporter ferry - Id call that a “ catastrophe on that scale “

[The Bastard]

20 minutes ago, John Wright said:

Battery fires have sunk a large car transporter ferry - Id call that a “ catastrophe on that scale “

Ah, I presume you're talking about the Felicity Ace, where electric cars were on board and caught fire, but weren't positively identified as the cause ?

Wiki : 

Car transporter fires have been highlighted for years, and haven't suddenly started because of EVs.

[doc.fixit]

45 minutes ago, The Bastard said:

Good points. But as opposed to say, a number of vehicles filled with volatile hydrocarbons which explode and go on fire all the time already ? What about petrol tankers, fuel stations, which make a battery fire look like an indoor firework ?

Battery fires have not yet led to a catastrophe on that scale, and the best approach is apparently to let the battery box burn itself out, then deal with the fire, which minimises the time on site. Probably needs new methods, new equipment in the same way as fire crews had to learn to deal with petrol fires in the past.

Burn itself out? On a ferry?