smart meters

[finlo]

3 minutes ago, quilp said:

In reality, none of the above post holds water. I could go to China, or India and a couple of other places and order/buy any number of the traditional mechanical consumption meters, and all the spares I might ever need. So "they" (whoever "they" are in this case, the decision-makers/influencers) do have an option. As @P.K. stated, introducing smart metres will reduce the need for expensive manpower, boots on the ground, etc., and probably a certain amount of office admin, so it's of financial benefit to the energy supplier and not so much the end-user. And the manufacturer of the metres, of course. 

I'd love to know what these "spare parts" for conventional meters consists of?

[quilp]

It smacks of the airport parking app, where some less-than-resourceful goon told some other dunder-headed goon (you know who you are) that the old meters aren't made by anyone and thus it was accepted without question...

[quilp]

31 minutes ago, finlo said:

I'd love to know what these "spare parts" for conventional meters consists of?

Me too. I can only bring to mind outer casings perhaps, or maybe after 50 years some of the (usually brass/mild steel) internal clockwork mechanisms wearing down.

Is the installation of 'smart' meters an unnecessary or premature development? 

[finlo]

2 minutes ago, quilp said:

Me too. I can only bring to mind outer casings perhaps, or maybe after 50 years some of the (usually brass/mild steel) internal clockwork mechanisms wearing down.

Is the installation of 'smart' meters an unnecessary or premature development? 

I doubt they employ anyone even capable of repairing them they just replace any that go wonky.

[Roger Mexico]

1 hour ago, Hoops said:

essentially, i used to put £20 on my key every 2 weeks, which is how I knew what i was using. Now it's every 5 days, using the same electrical items pretty much the same amount. Using the key, you don't get bills, so I wouldn't have that information. As I said initially, our neighbour is saying exactly the same thing. I was wondering about other people's experience of these meters. I'll get back on to the MEA.

My usage is similar, maybe a little lower but I haven't noticed any great change, certainly nothing so dramatic.  You can see your payments over the last 16 months or so via the website (under 'money') so that will confirm what you said about frequency of payment (there'll also be a hidden £20 credit for the old key).

The site also lets you look at usage and cost in some detail.  Unfortunately you only seem to be able to that for the last four weeks, so it's not really that smart.

[Happier diner]

10 hours ago, CallMeCurious said:

Which part? Someone getting a bung? Not being able to absorb £20m costs? Chinese products spying on us?

All of the above. They are not connected to the internet for a start.

[Happier diner]

8 hours ago, quilp said:

Me too. I can only bring to mind outer casings perhaps, or maybe after 50 years some of the (usually brass/mild steel) internal clockwork mechanisms wearing down.

Is the installation of 'smart' meters an unnecessary or premature development? 

 

7 hours ago, finlo said:

I doubt they employ anyone even capable of repairing them they just replace any that go wonky.

They have to replaced at a certain frequency regardless of condition. Triggers brooms are not allowed.

[Andy Onchan]

18 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

 

They have to replaced at a certain frequency regardless of condition. Triggers brooms are not allowed.

Why?

[John Wright]

1 hour ago, Andy Onchan said:

Why?

Why do most things need replacing? Why are we changing optic sizes?

[Happier diner]

1 hour ago, Andy Onchan said:

Why?

Because it is the law isn't it? The maximum life of a meter is 20 years. @Roger Mexicois better with the interweb than me

[Roger Mexico]

1 hour ago, Happier diner said:

Because it is the law isn't it? The maximum life of a meter is 20 years. @Roger Mexicois better with the interweb than me

We've discussed this before.   To reiterate what I said:

According to the original announcement in 2019, it was to cost £18.2 million, but that was delayed by the pandemic and the latest release just says: The project is being funded by £10m from the government, alongside money from Manx Utilities' annual budget, over a 10-year period.  Which suggest it could be well over £20 million.

Rather than loads of fluff about benefits to the consumer, they are now claiming that the problems is that you can't now get the 'old-fashioned' meters (as usual Mr Google begs to differ[1]) and that they're having to cannibalise the old ones to keep things going.  But that highlights the problem with going universally to a new system.  What happens if the kit for that suddenly becomes difficult to replace?  It would also be interesting to know how much is being saved by redeploying the meter-readers and whether the loss of the implicit monitoring of the network they provide also will cause problems.

[1]  The going price seems to be well under £40.  Assuming a cost of £20 million to replace 50,000 meters, the new network is £400 per meter.

 

From memory I couldn't (and still can't) find any legal requirement under UK legislation, only manufacturers' recommendations  (Business wants you to buy their goods more often shock) What is more likely is that planned or unplanned (firms going bust) obsolescence will make replacement inevitable.  We're already on the 'second generation' of smart meters and this piece from Which says Smart meters will need to be replaced around every 10 years – which is more often than current gas and electricity meters. It also says that replacement is optional - a luxury we don't seem to have on the Island.  Mechanically copying the English rarely includes the rights of the plebs.

Like so many commercial developments, smart meters have always struck me as a solution looking for a problem.  If you really want to monitor usage, there were already ad hoc solutions and few non-industrial users need to do continuous monitoring.  And with only four weeks data available, the data available aren't that useful anyway. 

Otherwise the only justification seems to be that all the big boys have got the new toy, so they want one as well. 

[hissingsid]

Do we have to have one ?   I have a relatively new meter, about five years old, and it would be wasteful to replace this besides which the smart meters are not getting a very good press from people who have them.

[Happier diner]

2 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

We've discussed this before.   To reiterate what I said:

According to the original announcement in 2019, it was to cost £18.2 million, but that was delayed by the pandemic and the latest release just says: The project is being funded by £10m from the government, alongside money from Manx Utilities' annual budget, over a 10-year period.  Which suggest it could be well over £20 million.

Rather than loads of fluff about benefits to the consumer, they are now claiming that the problems is that you can't now get the 'old-fashioned' meters (as usual Mr Google begs to differ[1]) and that they're having to cannibalise the old ones to keep things going.  But that highlights the problem with going universally to a new system.  What happens if the kit for that suddenly becomes difficult to replace?  It would also be interesting to know how much is being saved by redeploying the meter-readers and whether the loss of the implicit monitoring of the network they provide also will cause problems.

[1]  The going price seems to be well under £40.  Assuming a cost of £20 million to replace 50,000 meters, the new network is £400 per meter.

 

From memory I couldn't (and still can't) find any legal requirement under UK legislation, only manufacturers' recommendations  (Business wants you to buy their goods more often shock) What is more likely is that planned or unplanned (firms going bust) obsolescence will make replacement inevitable.  We're already on the 'second generation' of smart meters and this piece from Which says Smart meters will need to be replaced around every 10 years – which is more often than current gas and electricity meters. It also says that replacement is optional - a luxury we don't seem to have on the Island.  Mechanically copying the English rarely includes the rights of the plebs.

Like so many commercial developments, smart meters have always struck me as a solution looking for a problem.  If you really want to monitor usage, there were already ad hoc solutions and few non-industrial users need to do continuous monitoring.  And with only four weeks data available, the data available aren't that useful anyway. 

Otherwise the only justification seems to be that all the big boys have got the new toy, so they want one as well. 

I think the law is not explicitly stated but in my interpretation it is certainly the law both here and in the UK. The key paragraph is in the electricity Act

(1) No meter shall be used for ascertaining the quantity of electricity supplied by the Authority to a customer unless the meter is of an approved pattern or construction and is installed in an approved manner.

If a lifespan of the meter is stated by the manufacturer and that life is expired would that put the Authority in breach of the Act.

2 hours ago, hissingsid said:

Do we have to have one ?   I have a relatively new meter, about five years old, and it would be wasteful to replace this besides which the smart meters are not getting a very good press from people who have them.

I believe that you do have to have one. I do agree though that meters could be changed at their life expiry and not before. I wouldn't condone fitting non smart meters as that would be plain stupid, but as far as throwing away perfectly serviceable non smart meters then I agree.

[Gladys]

5 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

I think the law is not explicitly stated but in my interpretation it is certainly the law both here and in the UK. The key paragraph is in the electricity Act

(1) No meter shall be used for ascertaining the quantity of electricity supplied by the Authority to a customer unless the meter is of an approved pattern or construction and is installed in an approved manner.

If a lifespan of the meter is stated by the manufacturer and that life is expired would that put the Authority in breach of the Act.

I believe that you do have to have one. I do agree though that meters could be changed at their life expiry and not before. I wouldn't condone fitting non smart meters as that would be plain stupid, but as far as throwing away perfectly serviceable non smart meters then I agree.

Have the old meters been unapproved? 

[Happier diner]

Just now, Gladys said:

Have the old meters been unapproved? 

Fair observation

They would not be fitted correctly (nor approved) if they were considered to be past their sell by date and they would no longer be fit for testing. I did say it was implicit and not explicit

There is more explanation on the UK Gov website

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/electricity-meter-certification

Seems to be a minefield but any electricity company would find it hard to defend using a meter for charging its customers was sufficiently accurate of it was past its sell by date.