The Voice of Reason Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 1 hour ago, Non-Believer said: That'll be an, "I'm voting for" then Stu? As a Departmental member you'll be effectively obliged to do so anyway, regardless of any previous opinions expressed, including publishing figures on these boards indicating that only a small percentage of VED raised is actually spent on the roads. If, as you suggest, cycle lanes and active travel have to be paid for then why not forward a motion obliging cyclists to pay a contribution towards these facilities? It’s not just Stu suggesting cycle lanes and active travel have to be paid for.It’s common knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Buggane Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 I have nothing whats so ever to do with cycling and active travel, so why should I have to pay for it. I am already paying and may I say handsomely for my car travel, why should I subsidise some beardie in a hair shirt and lycra. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bastard Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 Read through the report, some interesting discussion apart from Stu Peters' responses which sounded really backward and ranty. 1 hour ago, Dirty Buggane said: I have nothing whats so ever to do with cycling and active travel, so why should I have to pay for it. I am already paying and may I say handsomely for my car travel, why should I subsidise some beardie in a hair shirt and lycra. Not this one again ! All goes in the same tax pot, whether it's cigarettes, alcohol, VAT on anything you buy, or vehicle excise duty. Everyone who pays tax in any form pays for the roads, and for the cycleways, and for the hospitals and schools. The VAT that the cyclist paid on his lycra is paying for the roads too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 1 hour ago, The Bastard said: Read through the report, some interesting discussion apart from Stu Peters' responses which sounded really backward and ranty. Not this one again ! All goes in the same tax pot, whether it's cigarettes, alcohol, VAT on anything you buy, or vehicle excise duty. Everyone who pays tax in any form pays for the roads, and for the cycleways, and for the hospitals and schools. The VAT that the cyclist paid on his lycra is paying for the roads too. Well that would be a fair point if it was compulsory to purchase Lycra. But you can cycle the roads without wearing it. The connection is therefore tenuous at best. Whereas the poor motorist is compelled by law to pay VED (or whatever it’s called these days) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bastard Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 (edited) 32 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: Well that would be a fair point if it was compulsory to purchase Lycra. But you can cycle the roads without wearing it. The connection is therefore tenuous at best. Whereas the poor motorist is compelled by law to pay VED (or whatever it’s called these days) Buying a bicycle generates VAT, which is spent on the roads. In fact, buying groceries, heating oil, shoes all generate tax which is spent on the roads. It's also not compulsory to be a motorist. Edited February 9, 2023 by The Bastard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Peters Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, Non-Believer said: That'll be an, "I'm voting for" then Stu? As a Departmental member you'll be effectively obliged to do so anyway, regardless of any previous opinions expressed, including publishing figures on these boards indicating that only a small percentage of VED raised is actually spent on the roads. If, as you suggest, cycle lanes and active travel have to be paid for then why not forward a motion obliging cyclists to pay a contribution towards these facilities? It was a tongue-in-cheek comment, but again I realise that humour is apparently to be discouraged. But yes, I'll vote for the rise as we need to offset losses like the 6-month tax offer. As a departmental member I have the freedom to vote according to any previously-stated position. My previous question on motor taxation covered VED and fuel duties, and revealed that only a small proportion of it went on maintaining (or improving) our roads. I'm delighted that electric cars will be charged, as I think it's only fair, and fairness is something that is sadly lacking as far as motorists and taxation are concerned. Engine size and emissions are blunt tools in applying road tax, so what might work better? Weight of vehicle? Purchase price? We'll never convince anyone to impose road tax (or insurance etc) on cyclists so it's a battle I'll avoid as unwinnable. Edited February 9, 2023 by Stu Peters Addendum 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cissolt Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 How were the increased figures decided? It seems to be punishing people for small engine sizes, what considerations were given to the extra cost on families? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 28 minutes ago, The Bastard said: Buying a bicycle generates VAT, which is spent on the roads. In fact, buying groceries, heating oil, shoes all generate tax which is spent on the roads. It's also not compulsory to be a motorist. Oh No. I have been using a lettuce to get to work on. I thought it got me there free of road tax. DOH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Peters Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 1 minute ago, cissolt said: How were the increased figures decided? It seems to be punishing people for small engine sizes, what considerations were given to the extra cost on families? Emissions play a part in all this and I think there has been a discussion about it being unfair to tax electric vehicles whilst allowing small ICE vehicles cheaper RFL/VED/road tax. Those with small engines may suffer a proportionally higher rise, but we petrolheads will suffer far more in actual cash terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 What losses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Peters Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 11 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: What losses? Those with second or collector cars who only tax for summer use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 You're inflicting a 10% rise on us to cover that? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 Man of the fucking people. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 50 minutes ago, Stu Peters said: Engine size and emissions are blunt tools in applying road tax, so what might work better? Weight of vehicle? Purchase price? Vehicle weight and mileage covered. That covers wear on the roads and pollution. User pays - the more you use, the more you pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KERED Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 56 minutes ago, Stu Peters said: It was a tongue-in-cheek comment, but again I realise that humour is apparently to be discouraged. But yes, I'll vote for the rise as we need to offset losses like the 6-month tax offer. As a departmental member I have the freedom to vote according to any previously-stated position. My previous question on motor taxation covered VED and fuel duties, and revealed that only a small proportion of it went on maintaining (or improving) our roads. I'm delighted that electric cars will be charged, Yep - they need to be charged regularly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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