Meoir Shee Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 56 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: Well you say anecdotes but their are plenty of studies by respectable scientific/ economic organizations which say that smokers make a net contribution to the economy, all things considered. Equally there are other studies ( again by reputable bodies ) which support your point of view. The evidence in either case is not overwhelming. I guess you ( not you but people in general) tend to veer towards those that support their own pro smoking/ anti smoking point of view. I have no idea why you have switched the conversation to smoking, I was solely referring to active travel, but fair enough, you win again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarley Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 On 2/10/2023 at 2:28 PM, The Voice of Reason said: ...I bought some cotton pyjamas from Marks and Spencer... Cotton? Really? I always figured you for a silk pyjamas kinda guy. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 19 hours ago, Meoir Shee said: I have no idea why you have switched the conversation to smoking, I was solely referring to active travel, but fair enough, you win again. Just really to demonstrate that you can find any research or scientific opinion, especially on the internet to support the view or opinion you hold. Particularly prevalent during the Covid era Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 2 hours ago, Zarley said: Cotton? Really? I always figured you for a silk pyjamas kinda guy. I keep them for special occasions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarley Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 46 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: I keep them for special occasions Like winning an argument on Manx Forums? Don't get much use then I s'pose. 😉 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meoir Shee Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 22 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: Just really to demonstrate that you can find any research or scientific opinion, especially on the internet to support the view or opinion you hold. Particularly prevalent during the Covid era I’d be very surprised if you can find any genuine research that suggests bicycles generate negative externalities or cars generate positive externalities. Here are just a few counter arguments from around the world from before the Covid era, whatever that has to do with it. Negative Externalities associated with car use: Traffic accidents in the U.S. cost $871 billion a year, federal study finds, 2014 Automobile Externalities and Policies, 2007 Externalities by Automobiles and Fare-Free Transit in Germany — A Paradigm Shift?, 2003 Not-So-Free Ride, 2008 Assessment of the external effects of car use in urban and rural areas of modern Russia, 2019 EXTERNALITIES IN THE TRANSPORT SECTOR, 1998 VEHICLE SIZE CHOICE AND AUTOMOBILE EXTERNALITIES: A DYNAMIC ANALYSIS, 2018 Internalizing the Externalities in Automobiles, 2019 The True Costs of Automobility: External Costs of Cars Overview on existing estimates in EU-27, 2012 Positive Externalities from cycle use: Rewarding Cycling for positive transport externalities, 2013 The Social Cost of Automobility, Cycling and Walking in the European Union, 2019 Who caused that congestion?, 2019 Economic Benefits of Increased Cycling, 2016 Walking and Cycling, the economic benefits, 2018 Economic Benefits of Bicycle Infrastructure Investments, 2013 Cycling is good for health and the economy, 2013 Dutch Cycling: Quantifying the Health and Related Economic Benefits, 2015 The benefits of cycling, 2016 Bicycling Provides $137 Million in Economic Benefits to Northwest Arkansas, 2018 Economic benefits of cycling, 2014 However, despite the above research based evidence from the past 20 years or so (I’ve ignored anything since 2020 as you appear to have concerns regarding research published during the Covid era), you are totally entitled to your own anecdotal evidence to discredit the findings. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 14 hours ago, Meoir Shee said: I’d be very surprised if you can find any genuine research that suggests bicycles generate negative externalities or cars generate positive externalities. Here are just a few counter arguments from around the world from before the Covid era, whatever that has to do with it. Negative Externalities associated with car use: Traffic accidents in the U.S. cost $871 billion a year, federal study finds, 2014 Automobile Externalities and Policies, 2007 Externalities by Automobiles and Fare-Free Transit in Germany — A Paradigm Shift?, 2003 Not-So-Free Ride, 2008 Assessment of the external effects of car use in urban and rural areas of modern Russia, 2019 EXTERNALITIES IN THE TRANSPORT SECTOR, 1998 VEHICLE SIZE CHOICE AND AUTOMOBILE EXTERNALITIES: A DYNAMIC ANALYSIS, 2018 Internalizing the Externalities in Automobiles, 2019 The True Costs of Automobility: External Costs of Cars Overview on existing estimates in EU-27, 2012 Positive Externalities from cycle use: Rewarding Cycling for positive transport externalities, 2013 The Social Cost of Automobility, Cycling and Walking in the European Union, 2019 Who caused that congestion?, 2019 Economic Benefits of Increased Cycling, 2016 Walking and Cycling, the economic benefits, 2018 Economic Benefits of Bicycle Infrastructure Investments, 2013 Cycling is good for health and the economy, 2013 Dutch Cycling: Quantifying the Health and Related Economic Benefits, 2015 The benefits of cycling, 2016 Bicycling Provides $137 Million in Economic Benefits to Northwest Arkansas, 2018 Economic benefits of cycling, 2014 However, despite the above research based evidence from the past 20 years or so (I’ve ignored anything since 2020 as you appear to have concerns regarding research published during the Covid era), you are totally entitled to your own anecdotal evidence to discredit the findings. Heres one positive externality of car ownership 1. Effects Of The Automobile On Economy The gradual growth of the automobile industry fuels an economic revolution in countries with major car manufacturers like Germany and the United States. The booming motor vehicle business contributed to the blossoming of other industries like vulcanized rubber, oil, and steel. Finally, many new highways were constructed and road construction created thousands of new jobs. Call this anecdotal if you want Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meoir Shee Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 2 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: Heres one positive externality of car ownership 1. Effects Of The Automobile On Economy The gradual growth of the automobile industry fuels an economic revolution in countries with major car manufacturers like Germany and the United States. The booming motor vehicle business contributed to the blossoming of other industries like vulcanized rubber, oil, and steel. Finally, many new highways were constructed and road construction created thousands of new jobs. Call this anecdotal if you want Apologies, I was quoting predominantly from scientific studies funded by governments or universities, yours is from carfromjapan.com and a direct quote from the author’s biography suggests his thoughts are somewhat anecdotal themselves: ”Philipp Meister is an amazing part of Car From Japan’s blogger team. After obtaining a degree in Automotive Technology from Technical University of Munich, Philipp worked as a technician in various Volvo dealerships. He has long been a car owner and enthusiast. With over 20 years experience in the automotive industry, he has great discussions about car that provide you interesting information of most famous cars. If you are a car lover and want to get most-updated trend of automotive industry, Philipp’s blog is a must-visit site.” Impact Of The Automobile: How Have Cars Changed The World? But you win, yet again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 12 minutes ago, Meoir Shee said: Apologies, I was quoting predominantly from scientific studies funded by governments or universities, yours is from carfromjapan.com and a direct quote from the author’s biography suggests his thoughts are somewhat anecdotal themselves: ”Philipp Meister is an amazing part of Car From Japan’s blogger team. After obtaining a degree in Automotive Technology from Technical University of Munich, Philipp worked as a technician in various Volvo dealerships. He has long been a car owner and enthusiast. With over 20 years experience in the automotive industry, he has great discussions about car that provide you interesting information of most famous cars. If you are a car lover and want to get most-updated trend of automotive industry, Philipp’s blog is a must-visit site.” Impact Of The Automobile: How Have Cars Changed The World? But you win, yet again. Ok, road construction hasn’t created thousands of jobs then. It’s just something this chap has just made up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meoir Shee Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 1 minute ago, The Voice of Reason said: Ok, road construction hasn’t created thousands of jobs then. It’s just something this chap has just made up. Please let me explain to avoid ongoing embarrassment. There is no doubt whatsoever that road construction has created thousands of jobs, that cars have enabled millions of people to travel etc. The chap is correct, cars have created thousands, maybe even millions of jobs. However, the overwhelming scientific and economic evidence, funded by governments, NGOs, universities, academics etc around the world, is that those benefits are significantly outweighed by the costs imposed upon society in the form of pollution, CO2 emissions, global warming, accidents, fatalities, congestion, increased health spending, habitat destruction, road building, noise, waste processing, oil extraction etc. I have signposted multiple sources previously, deliberately avoiding any overtly ‘green’ sources as they could well be overtly biased. You have quoted a blogger from carfromJapan.com who has worked as a technician at Volvo dealerships for 20 years. He can’t, by any stretch of the imagination, be described as a reliable source in this discussion. I think it is now time to move on, there are only so many times I can repeat the same indisputable facts. You are entitled to your own opinion and I completely respect that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cissolt Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 Interesting article in the courier. 2.5 million wasted on active travel, is that more or less than was spent on road maintenance? Even Henrietta was appalled by the poor management of the scheme. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 Active travel my arse. Active screwing up the highways and motorists more like. Active travel never works on major highways built for horses and carts. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshoremanxman Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 34 minutes ago, cissolt said: Interesting article in the courier. 2.5 million wasted on active travel, is that more or less than was spent on road maintenance? Even Henrietta was appalled by the poor management of the scheme. It’s just keeping people at the DOI in non-jobs thinking up and implementing pointless shit. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BriT Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 hour ago, cissolt said: 2.5 million wasted on active travel, is that more or less than was spent on road maintenance? So let’s just make a case for wasting a few more millions on top https://www.three.fm/news/isle-of-man-news/tynwald-committee-urges-govt-to-rebuild-three-former-railway-bridges/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cissolt Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 minute ago, BriT said: So let’s just make a case for wasting a few more millions on top https://www.three.fm/news/isle-of-man-news/tynwald-committee-urges-govt-to-rebuild-three-former-railway-bridges/ Ferry terminal 2.0 The green mlcs are clammering for the bridges to be rebuilt. Self interest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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