The Next Labour Govt In London

[Roger Mexico]

59 minutes ago, wrighty said:

ETA just thought it’s due to how they choose a leader. Tories it’s the parliamentary party largely, Labour it’s the wider membership. 

There's not really much difference in reality.  In both cases the final selection is made by the members after MPs have effectively provided a short list.  Both Parties require a number of MPs to back a candidate.  With the Conservatives MPs then reduce this list to two, but the process is similar.

In both cases it's the final vote that the members have that the political and media establishment hates.  Their version of democracy never includes anyone other than themselves having a meaningful vote.

[woolley]

22 hours ago, genericUserName said:

After the General Election, the remains of the Conservative Party is going to do to itself (in mirror image) what Momentum did to the Labour Party after 2015 (a process with its roots in 2010). Just as the Labour Party was taken over by Momentum, so the Conservatives are going to be taken over by their own unelectable nativitist fringe.

As with the takeover of Labour by Momentum, so the takeover of the hollowed out Conservative Party by Reform will be driven at a local level. Reform minded Conservatives are the mirror image of Momentum. They see themselves as true Conservatives, purists - exactly as Momentum believed themselves to be true Labour.

Reform minded Conservatives will argue poorly that the Conservatives failed to be conservative enough. Just the same as Momentum argued that centrism had failed. The reality is that just like Momentum, Reform minded Conservatives represent an unelectable political fringe - largely elderly and underachieving. They are not modern Conservatives in any sort of Thatcherite or libertarian sense.  They are not driven by a belief in sound money or the importance of economics. They are often suspicious of business, trade, global capitalism, the City etc. They offer no economic alternatives. 

UK General elections are only ever won from the sensible relative centre - i.e. relative to where most of the electorate are. In 2029 (or whenever the next General Election is) the Conservative Party will likely be dominated by Reform - they will have their own version of Corbyn as leader. Hugely popular with the membership probably. Electoral poison.

Perhaps the Conservative Party will one day recover. More likely people who believe in the kind of sensible economics which the Conservatives used to be about will find a home elsewhere. And especially as Britain will, sooner or later, get PR and a semi-permanent centrist coalition.

A reasonable commentary, but a couple of things are slightly jarring.

A suspicion of global capitalism is healthy and necessary. I would be the very first in the queue to champion business, trade and the City, but they do need a weather eye keeping on them, and much firmer regulation to curb their raw excesses. Multinationals given a free hand are simply self-serving to the detriment of the weakest.

I also wonder how you believe that the UK will come to adopt PR, given that it is not in the interest of the major parties.

[woolley]

6 hours ago, Declan said:

Tories leaders sacked or forced out by their MPs - Truss, Johnson, May, Cameron, Duncan-Smith, Thatcher, Heath. 

(It's a bit opaque before then because leaders were appointed and removed by the men in grey suits)

 

Cameron resigned after losing the referendum. Previously he had pledged to implement the result.

ETA: Also pointed out by wrighty, I note. @Declan He didn't hang around long enough to see what support he had. Just didn't like the result and decided to resign in the middle of the same night.

Edited May 29 by woolley

[Non-Believer]

49 minutes ago, woolley said:

A reasonable commentary, but a couple of things are slightly jarring.

A suspicion of global capitalism is healthy and necessary. I would be the very first in the queue to champion business, trade and the City, but they do need a weather eye keeping on them, and much firmer regulation to curb their raw excesses. Multinationals given a free hand are simply self-serving to the detriment of the weakest.

I also wonder how you believe that the UK will come to adopt PR, given that it is not in the interest of the major parties.

 

[genericUserName]

38 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

 

This is not a monkey.

Chimpanzees are nototiously aggressive with each other.

[Hairy Poppins]

I'm actually starting to think there's a real chance Labour may have fucked it.

[TheTeapot]

They haven't even started to fuck it yet.

[WTF]

3 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

They haven't even started to fuck it yet.

tynwald are going across to help them with that

[wrighty]

1 hour ago, Hairy Poppins said:

I'm actually starting to think there's a real chance Labour may have fucked it.

Is this the Diane Abbott row or something else?

All the Tories need is Keir Starmer to fall in the sea on Brighton Beach and it’ll be 1992 all over again. (If I’ve got my historical analogy wrong there I’m sure @Roger Mexico will be along shortly to put me right 😉)

[woolley]

Sunak is a peculiar one. The way he approaches people, right hand out, "I'm Rishi." You think we don't know who you are by now, you dick? Then when he's speaking to them he bends down, almost looking up at them sideways, and his body makes lots of nervous twitching movements as he tries to ingratiate himself. It struck me the other day that his antics remind me of Norman Wisdom, and now every time he's on I just can't unsee it.

Edited May 29 by woolley

[hoopsaa]

7 hours ago, woolley said:

Sunak is a peculiar one. The way he approaches people, right hand out, "I'm Rishi." You think we don't know who you are by now, you dick? Then when he's speaking to them he bends down, almost looking up at them sideways, and his body makes lots of nervous twitching movements as he tries to ingratiate himself. It struck me the other day that his antics remind me of Norman Wisdom, and now every time he's on I just can't unsee it.

Not just him though, is it?

Starmer is so wooden he's like a human spatula, while on the inside  he's an airdancer, flip-flopping all over the place.

Davey, the fake fall into the lake, all so he could deliver a really shit punchline, but no-ones listening anyway, Ed.

You put Farage in a public debate with that lot (and no, he has no place in that debate per se), and on oratory and charisma alone he wipes the floor with them.

But let's face it, the uk's political elite made Sturgeon look good, for a while...

[Moghrey Mie]

9 hours ago, Hairy Poppins said:

I'm actually starting to think there's a real chance Labour may have fucked it.

There's no need to give Diane Abbot a seat in cabinet. Just allow her to stand and respect her as a trail-blazer for equality etc. They can't afford to treat one of their assets like this.

[La Colombe]

9 hours ago, Hairy Poppins said:

I'm actually starting to think there's a real chance Labour may have fucked it.

 

 

[hoopsaa]

31 minutes ago, Moghrey Mie said:

There's no need to give Diane Abbot a seat in cabinet. Just allow her to stand and respect her as a trail-blazer for equality etc. They can't afford to treat one of their assets like this.

What she said, and this is just one 'for instance', about the NHS hiring the Finnish nurses....reverse that and see what you get? 

She should have been offed a long time ago.

[Roger Mexico]

12 hours ago, wrighty said:

All the Tories need is Keir Starmer to fall in the sea on Brighton Beach and it’ll be 1992 all over again. (If I’ve got my historical analogy wrong there I’m sure @Roger Mexico will be along shortly to put me right 😉)

Apologies for the delay. 

Kinnock's tumble on the shingle happening in 1983, so not really likely likely to affect the result nine years and two elections later.  What was always said to have an effect on the 1992 result was his triumphalism at the Sheffield Rally.  In reality the polls were a lot closer than people remember and there was clearly a 'shy Tory' factor that ended up giving Major a small majority.