Should nurses strike for better pay.

[manxman1980]

38 minutes ago, Cambon said:

Uneducated train driver starting salary is circa £60,000 a year.

Qualified nurse starting salary is circa £30,000 a year. 

Enough said! 

I think describing a train driver as uneducated is disingenuous.  They may not require a degree level education but driving a train full of people in excess of 100mph (not in all cases) requires a high level of responsibility and training to undertake the role safely.

HGV drivers can earn over £40,000 per annum.  Welders, pipefitters and riggers can earn over £35,000 on basic hours without any of the allowances and bonuses they usually get paid.

Absolutely nurse's are undervalued but let's not take target other working class people.  Look at the wealthy bosses if you want a target for your ire.

[BillyNoMates]

they told us to clap for them during covid calling them heroes. now they tell them to get lost when they want fair pay. doesnt seem right.

[Cambon]

3 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

I think describing a train driver as uneducated is disingenuous.  They may not require a degree level education but driving a train full of people in excess of 100mph (not in all cases) requires a high level of responsibility and training to undertake the role safely.

HGV drivers can earn over £40,000 per annum.  Welders, pipefitters and riggers can earn over £35,000 on basic hours without any of the allowances and bonuses they usually get paid.

Absolutely nurse's are undervalued but let's not take target other working class people.  Look at the wealthy bosses if you want a target for your ire.

Fair enough, but the majority of the train drivers job is automated. They really just sit there and press override buttons when told, and brakes in an emergency. 

[GreyWolf]

Nurses deserve better pay and I really do hope they get a better deal it’s a tough job that most of us could never do.

[manxman1980]

4 minutes ago, Cambon said:

Fair enough, but the majority of the train drivers job is automated. They really just sit there and press override buttons when told, and brakes in an emergency. 

On the DLR and some Underground routes maybe but most of the other lines do require the driver to actually drive the train.  In fact the emergency brakes are more likely to be applied if the Driver isn't paying attention causing the AWS to apply the emergency brakes.

Could they be automated?  Absolutely.  The UK Government and train operators would need to pay a huge sum of money to upgrade the whole of the rail network though.  They would much prefer to reduce staffing levels to minimum levels instead.

[P.K.]

6 hours ago, BillyNoMates said:

they told us to clap for them during covid calling them heroes. now they tell them to get lost when they want fair pay. doesnt seem right.

The appreciation the nurses need is the type that pays their bills...

This isn't rocket science...

[The Voice of Reason]

4 hours ago, Cambon said:

Fair enough, but the majority of the train drivers job is automated. They really just sit there and press override buttons when told, and brakes in an emergency. 

May one enquire as to how many trains you have driven? Or how many train drivers training courses you have attended as a participator or even an observer?

[Apple]

20 hours ago, P.K. said:

The appreciation the nurses need is the type that pays their bills...

...and their registration fees, and their university debts, and their travel costs. 

[Moghrey Mie]

On 12/15/2022 at 8:47 AM, Apple said:

Historical day - first nurses strike in England.

The Government have put Marie Caulfield MP in the front line on Television this morning to explain itsposition. She was a nurse for 25 years apparently and had to live on a nurses salary before standing for parliament. Worked for the RCN for better pay and conditions.

What she doesn't mention is the fact that now nurses have to pay for their own training (she didn't) and that she was married for a long period of time so had the additional support of a partner.

Nursing is predominantly a female profession so a financial partner can be a real bonus.

If the nurses are successful in their aims for pay increases tI wonder what the impact for the island may be. Will we lose our nurses to a better paid sector.?

I think we are already losing nursing and social care workers to private where they can get more money.

[Apple]

Reading this morning that Unison (ambulance drivers) and possibly the RCN may disengage from the Independent Pay Review Body mechanism and revert to national pay bargaining next year.

That could create some tensions between the UK and IoM presumably.

UK ambulances told to hand patients over to A and E staff within 15 minutes on days of strikes. That could actually benefit patients but would promote the chaotic log jams currently being seen and that are , according to the UK press, already causing severe harm and even risks to patients  waiting for assessment.

Are the Tory Government determined to break the UK NHS apart and leave Labour with such a mess they will have not chance to deal with so many of the problems and further privatisation becomes inevitable. ? Where will this all end. ? 

[wrighty]

On 12/18/2022 at 3:58 PM, Apple said:

 Where will this all end. ? 

That’s what I can’t figure out. I think we’re in the midst of a slow collapse of the NHS, like watching a car crash in slow motion but being powerless to help (much).

It’ll probably end with more and more privatisation. Let’s hope we go European/Antipodean rather than copying the US (which everyone except rich Americans, rich US doctors, and health insurance providers think is appalling)

[Non-Believer]

Another question might be; if the Govt are refusing to give in-line-with-inflation rises, how long do Govt expect people to struggle until Govt gets to grips with inflation or inflation naturally reduces - weeks, months or years?

Not an attractive proposal if you're a worker in any line who has consistently received below-inflation rises anyway over the last few years.

[Newbie]

19 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

Another question might be; if the Govt are refusing to give in-line-with-inflation rises, how long do Govt expect people to struggle until Govt gets to grips with inflation or inflation naturally reduces - weeks, months or years?

Not an attractive proposal if you're a worker in any line who has consistently received below-inflation rises anyway over the last few years.

It is a good question. What makes it harder to bear is the fact that when the UK government submitted information to the Independent Pay Review body, they indicated that they believed inflation would peak at 4% in 2022. With that information, the Pay Review body recommended a pay rise of 4.5%, with more for the most junior staff, so it could be argued that they were clearly trying to give an above inflation pay rise. Had they been given more accurate information by the government, they may very well have recommended a much higher pay rise. So the nurses are having to pay for the incompetence of the government.

Edited December 20, 2022 by Newbie

[Apple]

14 hours ago, wrighty said:

I think we’re in the midst of a slow collapse of the NHS, like watching a car crash in slow motion but being powerless to help (much).

Sadly that may be true but the chaos that more reform would cause doesn't bear thinking about. 

 

1 hour ago, Non-Believer said:

Another question might be; if the Govt are refusing to give in-line-with-inflation rises, how long do Govt expect people to struggle until Govt gets to grips with inflation or inflation naturally reduces - weeks, months or years?

Not an attractive proposal if you're a worker in any line who has consistently received below-inflation rises anyway over the last few years.

Maybe its time to move away from the inflation argument. Several financial pundits argue that public services salaries do not contribute to inflation. 

[wrighty]

1 hour ago, Newbie said:

It is a good question. What makes it harder to bear is the fact that when the UK government submitted information to the Independent Pay Review body, they indicated that they believed inflation would peak at 4% in 2022. With that information, the Pay Review body recommended a pay rise of 4.5%, with more for the most junior staff, so it could be argued that they were clearly trying to give an above inflation pay rise. Had they been given more accurate information by the government, they may very well have recommended a much higher pay rise. So the nurses are having to pay for the incompetence of the government.

Government are being very disingenuous. In previous years they’ve not accepted pay review body recommendations, but are now hiding behind them. I don’t like the way they seem to be able to have their cake and eat it. I hope the pay body take into account the current inflation rate for next year, and don’t rely on government predictions of it becoming negative or whatever so they should recommend a cut.