Government submits plan for improvements to Sea Terminal

[NoTailT]

1 minute ago, Albert Tatlock said:

Totally agree...the DoI should be told to get out of that building. Transport hub...buses again, ticket shop and welcome centre, and some good eateries.

Won't change how the DoI operates, they can screw us up just as well based in Ramsey, Peel or anywhere out of town.

Our two major transport hubs need major critical investment. Right now, they’re practical, both do a half decent job of doing what they’re meant to.

But it’s an embarrassment to the Island for people arriving and departing.

[Andy Onchan]

44 minutes ago, NoTail said:

Do you actually need planning permission to fix a roof?

No. It's called maintenance.

[Dave Hedgehog]

59 minutes ago, NoTail said:

Do you actually need planning permission to fix a roof?

This isn't just any roof. It's a DoI roof.

[Happier diner]

1 hour ago, Albert Tatlock said:

Totally agree...the DoI should be told to get out of that building. Transport hub...buses again, ticket shop and welcome centre, and some good eateries.

Won't change how the DoI operates, they can screw us up just as well based in Ramsey, Peel or anywhere out of town.

Have you got a pot of gold. If you think about it there's not really much you could do with those top floors. Yes, restaurants and bars sounds good, but really? 

Would take some serious investment and would it really be that much of a desirable location. 

Maybe the DOI should have go at selling it and see of anyone comes along. 

Then once a developer has bought it, slap a preservation order on it. 

Sound familiar?

[Happier diner]

1 hour ago, Andy Onchan said:

Actually it's maintenance dressed up as capital projects. Which tells you everything about the DOI.

No it's not. Maintenance is improving an existing thing. Capital is a new thing. 

There is no balustrades. There is no fire exit. There is no fibreglass roof.

All new. All capital schemes. Correct decision . 

The DOI can't win. If they did it ad revenue schemes all the moaners would be in saying they are not following financial regulations. 

[Happier diner]

12 hours ago, Amadeus said:

There I was hoping they would propose moving their offices out of prime real estate and putting the building to better use, such as making the upstairs a restaurant again. There are precisely zero reasons why the DOI needs offices in there and couldn't be housed in some existing government building elsewhere. Sad. 

 

The Department of Infrastructure has proposed improvements to the interior of the Sea Terminal in Douglas.

A planning application, submitted last week, proposes the fixing of the balustrading (stair railing) on the level above the departures and arrivals lounge, replacement of the old leaking flat-roof coverings and the installation of a new fire escape staircase from roof level to ground level on the Victoria Pier.

 

Hey Frank. This has shifted the focus onto DOI and away from DBC. 

Nice work. I see what you did. 

[daisy]

1 hour ago, Happier diner said:

Have you got a pot of gold. If you think about it there's not really much you could do with those top floors. Yes, restaurants and bars sounds good, but really? 

Would take some serious investment and would it really be that much of a desirable location. 

Maybe the DOI should have go at selling it and see of anyone comes along. 

Then once a developer has bought it, slap a preservation order on it. 

Sound familiar?

Used to be a great restaurant there ..... much better use of the space for the Island than offices

If they used the Sea Terminal as a transport hub of course it would be used ......

It is an iconic building it should be maintained and preserved - not everybody wants to look at square concrete and glass characterless blocks

 

[Boris Johnson]

2 hours ago, Happier diner said:

Have you got a pot of gold. If you think about it there's not really much you could do with those top floors. Yes, restaurants and bars sounds good, but really? 

Would take some serious investment and would it really be that much of a desirable location. 

Maybe the DOI should have go at selling it and see of anyone comes along. 

Then once a developer has bought it, slap a preservation order on it. 

Sound familiar?

If the whole building was stripped of its architectural  "additions" (It is one of the very few buildings on the island that should be on some form of protection register) which totally ruin the look of the place,  it could easily go back to being a transport hub with a destination restaurant on the round bit.

kitchens on the floor below along with offices for the main bit which would be a bus station/ transport hub.

The current bus depot at Banks circus could be sold to Tesco and the area needed to park buses at night etc given over to a spot on Cooil Rd somewhere up Braddan

Everybody wins apart from a few/ sorry lots of DOI air wasters in there that cant walk into town at lunchtime.

[0bserver]

4 hours ago, Albert Tatlock said:

Won't change how the DoI operates, they can screw us up just as well based in Ramsey, Peel or anywhere out of town.

Not quite true. They need to be within walking distance of The Entertainer (other toy shops are available) for when their crayons and colouring books need replacing. 

[0bserver]

21 minutes ago, Boris Johnson said:

 

The current bus depot at Banks circus could be sold to Tesco and the area needed to park buses at night etc given over to a spot on Cooil Rd somewhere up Braddan

Everybody wins apart from a few/ sorry lots of DOI air wasters in there that cant walk into town at lunchtime.

The bus depot and railway station should both be cleared and sold. The bus depot as you say should go to Tesco, the railway station site should be used for apartments. 

[The Bastard]

1 hour ago, daisy said:

Used to be a great restaurant there ..... much better use of the space for the Island than offices

If they used the Sea Terminal as a transport hub of course it would be used ......

It is an iconic building it should be maintained and preserved - not everybody wants to look at square concrete and glass characterless blocks

 

It is of a certain time, so it makes you wonder if there are issues with construction materials or structural complications that made it unsuitable to open to the public.

Personally I see it more as functional than iconic. There is a certain brutalist charm to the "lemon squeezer" but other than that, it's just concrete, lots of it basically unused space.

[Roger Mexico]

2 hours ago, Happier diner said:

No it's not. Maintenance is improving an existing thing. Capital is a new thing. 

There is no balustrades. There is no fire exit. There is no fibreglass roof.

All new. All capital schemes. Correct decision . 

The DOI can't win. If they did it ad revenue schemes all the moaners would be in saying they are not following financial regulations. 

Well according to the planning application:

https://services.gov.im/planningapplication/services/planning/planningapplicationdetails.iom?ApplicationReferenceNumber=22%2F01495%2FB

The short description is:

Refurbishment of existing high-level balustrading at flat roof level over arrivals and departure corridor, replacement of the old leaking flat roof coverings and the installation of a new fire escape staircase from roof level to ground level. Relocation of the existing staircase enclosure from behind the stair tower on Victoria Pier to in front of the stair tower, and the moving of the existing car parking spaces forward to avoid the new stair enclosure

Only the fire escape is new and that's in addition an existing one on the other side of the tower (see detailed plans - download) about which their main worry seems to be "to prevent unauthorised persons gaining access to the stairs".  To be fair we all know how traumatic it is for a senior Manx civil servant to encounter an actual member of the public, but you wonder how they have managed to live with this possible security breach for the last 50-odd years.

In so far as any of this is justified (the roofing probably is) this is all clearly maintenance work.  Whether it's stupid Treasury rules that means it has to be recast as capital (with moving the staircase being the justification) or whether it's the usual FoI desire to give a nice job to the usual mates (builders and architects), it's almost certainly going to cost more than it should if it was treated as normal year-round maintenance.

[Happier diner]

28 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

Well according to the planning application:

https://services.gov.im/planningapplication/services/planning/planningapplicationdetails.iom?ApplicationReferenceNumber=22%2F01495%2FB

The short description is:

Refurbishment of existing high-level balustrading at flat roof level over arrivals and departure corridor, replacement of the old leaking flat roof coverings and the installation of a new fire escape staircase from roof level to ground level. Relocation of the existing staircase enclosure from behind the stair tower on Victoria Pier to in front of the stair tower, and the moving of the existing car parking spaces forward to avoid the new stair enclosure

Only the fire escape is new and that's in addition an existing one on the other side of the tower (see detailed plans - download) about which their main worry seems to be "to prevent unauthorised persons gaining access to the stairs".  To be fair we all know how traumatic it is for a senior Manx civil servant to encounter an actual member of the public, but you wonder how they have managed to live with this possible security breach for the last 50-odd years.

In so far as any of this is justified (the roofing probably is) this is all clearly maintenance work.  Whether it's stupid Treasury rules that means it has to be recast as capital (with moving the staircase being the justification) or whether it's the usual FoI desire to give a nice job to the usual mates (builders and architects), it's almost certainly going to cost more than it should if it was treated as normal year-round maintenance.

Yep. Treasury rules. 

[Happier diner]

1 hour ago, Boris Johnson said:

If the whole building was stripped of its architectural  "additions" (It is one of the very few buildings on the island that should be on some form of protection register) which totally ruin the look of the place,  it could easily go back to being a transport hub with a destination restaurant on the round bit.

kitchens on the floor below along with offices for the main bit which would be a bus station/ transport hub.

The current bus depot at Banks circus could be sold to Tesco and the area needed to park buses at night etc given over to a spot on Cooil Rd somewhere up Braddan

Everybody wins apart from a few/ sorry lots of DOI air wasters in there that cant walk into town at lunchtime.

It's a stupid place for DOI offices.  I agree. But now it's there would it be a good use of money to move them somewhere else? That's a question and not a statement  BTW. 

I wonder if someone has looked at the feasibility. 

DBC have a big depot up at the business park. Was probably good value when they bought it. I'll bet uts worth more now that the sea terminal. 

[Boris Johnson]

22 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

It's a stupid place for DOI offices.  I agree. But now it's there would it be a good use of money to move them somewhere else? That's a question and not a statement  BTW. 

I wonder if someone has looked at the feasibility. 

DBC have a big depot up at the business park. Was probably good value when they bought it. I'll bet uts worth more now that the sea terminal. 

I very much doubt it is worth more than the Sea Terminal but the fact remains that IOMG NEED to put offices outside Douglas for the benefit of the whole island.

...................................................

We seem to have accepted that IOMG will be the biggest, by far employer, of "Non Economically Wise Persons" so we have to put the "B stream" somewhere. To make the island's CS unemployed would crash the Ponzi Economy that we scratch by with.

Stick a couple of thousand of them in Ramsey and then we will see the benefit of extra footfall in the shops and Cafes in Ramsey.

Stick a couple of thousand of them in Castletown and again see the  benefit of extra footfall in the shops and Cafes in Castletown, it may even keep the outside toilets open.

Stick a couple of thousand of them in Peel and we will see, well nothing probably, but you get my general point.