No more campers and motorhomes at the Ayres

[A fool and his money.....]

4 minutes ago, Roxanne said:

What would you do if you were sorting it all out? 

Leave the bloody thing to run itself as it did successfully for half a century before some rich when-I bought the house next door and started whinging.

I had never witnessed any antisocial behaviour before that, but even if there was- well the law still applies on the Claddagh, deal with it the same way as anywhere else.

Just symptomatic of increasing intolerance of pretty much anything over here, live and let live FFS. If you want to live in an over-regulated souless shit hope why don't you stay in (most of) the UK?

[Ativa]

27 minutes ago, Roxanne said:

And while I’m at it, your constant Island bashing is becoming really tiresome.

We get it. You think we’re a total shambles and you’ve gone to that extremely well run Island next door where milk and honey runs past your door every day. Well done. I’m delighted for you.

But enough already. 

But yet, hasn’t managed to find a local forum to annoy yet

[Non-Believer]

1 minute ago, Roxanne said:

But there are costs to run it. Toilet block, showers during racing, water, grey and back emptying points, rubbish removal, grass cutting. Do you think the government should do all that with no return from the people who are allowed to use it? 

It used to police itself in the early days but when it closed to the public the first time it was instigated in the main by the police who were spending every weekend there sorting out trouble. The noise it caused the neighbours was also a factor. 

There are costs to run it but they don't need to amount to £50k a year whilst only taking, I think it was, £7k in fees for the last year. Particularly when costs were so much less in previous years.

Yes, there needs to be a fee of some amount but there clearly needs to be an overhaul of management of the facility and its expenditure. Not just stuffing G4S's pockets without question (wink wink) and then ramming up the charges when the whole thing becomes public, to try and make amends.

[A fool and his money.....]

Neighbour not neighbours, there's only one who could possibly be within earshot of the camping area - the police being there every weekend was due to him calling them.

The government/ local government service toilets and cut grass in many areas island-wide and don't charge users a penny, why should the Claddagh be any different - they'll still have to cut the grass whatever it's used for.

It didn't just police itself in the"early days", it did so for many, many decades up until not so long ago. Has drunken antisocial behaviour increased since then? Has it hell, time was a trip to the pub at the weekend in any town on the island would guarantee witnessing a scrap or more often a full on brawl. A Saturday night these days is like a Tuesday night used to be.

It's just the latest excuse for using a sledgehammer to crack a non-existant nut. It was damage caused by stuck camper vans at the Ayres, heavy metals at Snuff the Wind, no overnight parking in any lay-by because they can.

Cut the grass, clean the bogs and leave the people who want to use it get on with it.

[A fool and his money.....]

17 minutes ago, Roxanne said:

 

It used to police itself in the early days but when it closed to the public the first time it was instigated in the main by the police who were spending every weekend there sorting out trouble. The noise it caused the neighbours was also a factor. 

I'd be extremely interested to hear how many arrests were made at the Claddagh before restrictions were introduced.

I'm guessing it may rhyme with hero. Just because the police don't like to be disturbed from their Chinese takeaway or harrassing motorists by the whinging of a curtain twitcher l who moved in long after the campsite was well established, doesn't mean it should spoil it for the rest of us.

[hissingsid]

If you buy a house within the TT course you acknowledge the downside, if you buy a house near a school you should realise parking will be a concern at hometimes etc if you buy a house next to a campsite suck it up buttercup it has been there a lot longer than you and should be pointed out to the householder.

[Happier diner]

14 minutes ago, hissingsid said:

If you buy a house within the TT course you acknowledge the downside, if you buy a house near a school you should realise parking will be a concern at hometimes etc if you buy a house next to a campsite suck it up buttercup it has been there a lot longer than you and should be pointed out to the householder.

except its not a campsite and never has been

[BriT]

18 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

except its not a campsite and never has been

It depends how you define a campsite. If it’s a field regularly used by campers and motor home users fir recreational camping then it’s a campsite regardless of how it’s specifically designated. For a start you can’t stay there without having a camping permit so that basically makes it a campsite to me! 

[Happier diner]

8 minutes ago, BriT said:

It depends how you define a campsite. If it’s a field regularly used by campers and motor home users fir recreational camping then it’s a campsite regardless of how it’s specifically designated. For a start you can’t stay there without having a camping permit so that basically makes it a campsite to me! 

It does come down to how you define a campsite I agree. If someone said to me we are going to a campsite I would expect to see, as a minimum

A reception, toilets and showers, a place to put rubbish, designated pitches, charges, a telephone, a gated access, rules, fire alarm, boundary, fence

I know its subjective but I would call it a seasonal wild/free camping area. Mostly based upon the fact that there is no reception or charges

[Non-Believer]

48 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

except its not a campsite and never has been

On paper it never was, it was rightly or wrongly perceived as being "common ground" and people enjoyed the privilege of free recreation on it for many, many years.

In recent years allegations began to arise of unsociable behaviour, this gave our revenue-grabbing Govt all the excuse they needed to start applying a raft of user conditions and charges; whether they had the legal right to do so could well be another question altogether, to include fencing big areas of it off. If it's not a campsite then they can't be having a charging structure to use it as such.

In true IoMG fashion though even the costs of "running" it spiralled up from what they had previously been, aided in no small part by the usual wish to unquestioningly shovel huge loads of money towards one of Govt's favourites (G4S), to the extent that expenditure was more than sevenfold revenue in 2021, with nothing to show for it other than further deterioration of the meagre facilities available to the extent that they were then used as an excuse to attempt to close it altogether.

Govt including the tossers from DEFA, DfE and Treasury need to fix the toilets up that they so freely neglected and then get the fuck away from it and allow it to police itself. If there is trouble there, the Police can be called to deal with it, robustly if necessary to set the example.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Non-Believer
Typo

[Happier diner]

31 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

On paper it never was, it was rightly or wrongly perceived as being "common ground" and people enjoyed the privilege of free recreation on it for many, many years.

In recent years allegations began to arise of unsociable behaviour, this gave our revenue-grabbing Govt all the excuse they needed to start applying a raft of user conditions and charges; whether they had the legal right to do so could well be another question altogether, to include fencing big areas of it off. If it's not a campsite then they can't be having a charging structure to use it as such.

In true IoMG fashion though even the costs of "running" it spiralled up from what they had previously been, aided in no small part by the usual wish to unquestioningly shovel huge loads of money towards one of Govt's favourites (G4S), to the extent that expenditure was more than sevenfold revenue in 2021, with nothing to show for it other than further deterioration of the meagre facilities available to the extent that they were then used as an excuse to attempt to close it altogether.

Govt including the tossers from DEFA, DfE and Treasury need to fix the toilets up that they so freely neglected and then get the fuck away from it and allow it to police itself. If there is trouble there, the Police can be called to deal with it, robustly if necessary to set the example.

I know that you and @A fool and his money.....have made the case for self policing and I would like to agree with you. I have been staying there for many years and yes, 10 years ago that's how it was. There was sometimes some disorder, drunkenness, noise  etc. But it was part of the experience. Same in TT and MGP. Revving bikes, music laughing and joking all night. Not a problem. Now, unless me and @Roxanne have been very unlucky, or you two haven't actually been for years, its not the same. Its quite nasty and sinister. We didn't feel safe and that never happened before. There was a bad atmosphere. Felt like a Bradford Council estate not a nice country camping area or even a party gathering.

It won't police itself and the police have better things to do. The Police turned up when we were there. It all went quiet for half an hour. The Police went and then it all kicked off again. We haven't been back since. We used to patronise the Glen and the Ginger as did other campers. Now its more blue lightening and loud R plate fiesta exhausts, then racing, then fighting.

Its needs to be done properly or not all.

[piebaps]

1 hour ago, Happier diner said:

except its not a campsite and never has been

Correct

This is from the consultation document

The Sulby Claddagh is situated on the banks of the Sulby River in the Parish of Lezayre. This 16 acre site has played an important part in the life of the village for many centuries and, for many Manx people, holds an enduring affection.

From the early 18th century onwards the site was used for the annual Trinity Fair and, from this association, was referred to locally as the Fairground for many years.

The site, which used to flood regularly, was drained by the excavation and straightening of the Sulby River channel in the 1940’s.

Now used primarily for open-air recreation, the Claddagh is popular for dog walking, picnicking, seasonal camping and ball games. It is also a convenient base from which to explore the local footpaths that lead to Mount Carrick, the Sulby valley and beyond.

Over the years, areas of the Claddagh have been zoned to make the best use of space which has included the creation of an arboretum, dedicated recreational area and perimeter walkway. 

The Claddagh previously suffered from problems of unacceptable behaviour, which led to the creation of Byelaws in 2002.

These Byelaws have been amended over the years and, amongst other controls, permit overnight camping between May and the end of September. Whilst not an official campsite, camping has become the majority use during the summer months of the site. The Claddagh is particularly popular for this activity during TT fortnight and during the height of summer.

 

 

[hissingsid]

It is land that people camp on……much the same thing.

[Happier diner]

2 hours ago, hissingsid said:

It is land that people camp on……much the same thing.

No it's not. 

[A fool and his money.....]

11 hours ago, Happier diner said:

except its not a campsite and never has been

Well people have been camping there in significant numbers since the end of the war, a vast majority of that time very happily with little or no regulation or government involvement.

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck .

Don't believe everything self important civil servants tell you.