Assisted Dying Leaflet published by ?

[Cinderella]

2 minutes ago, The Phantom said:

You've not been here long. That's not a rant....

I have lurked in the shadows for a while …..

[Jarndyce]

20 minutes ago, WTF said:

26 minutes ago, Jarndyce said:

 

Crass.

and yet correct.

My other half died in Hospice here.   For avoidance of doubt: your stated view (doubled down as “correct”) is that my other half had to “suffer for as long as possible to maintain jobs”?

[Two-lane]

How does "I may be gone sometime..." fit into this, or any similar action?

On the other hand, sometime in the last couple of years I read an article by some archaeologist/anthropologist/?  The pre-historic bones of a woman had been found. They determined that she had suffered from a debilitating desease, and that she had been in that condition for some time (that's technology) - in other words someone had looked after her.

The reason the scientists thought this was interesting was because of the age of the bones, and they were surprised that such pairing already existed at that time.

Just because someone is a bit doddery does not mean that the rest of the family are going to kick her down the stairs (or out into the blizzard) - which is the main thrust of the leaflet (apart from money).

[WTF]

43 minutes ago, Jarndyce said:

My other half died in Hospice here.   For avoidance of doubt: your stated view (doubled down as “correct”) is that my other half had to “suffer for as long as possible to maintain jobs”?

bed bound  terminally ill people with no quality of life  don't look after themselves do they , it is quite ironic that our 'humane' termination of any other suffering animal on the planet doesn't  actually apply to 'humans'.  my mother died of cancer and wanted to be put out of her misery months before she eventually died after wasting away to the point of looking like an anorexic extra out of schindlers list . she was suffering, she knew it ( till her head went ). being a retired nurse she knew what was coming and wanted to avoid it, she spent her last months in great discomfort and barely tolerable levels of pain quite often ,  so yes, she was kept alive against her will and people were employed to keep her going as long as practicably possible .  don't get me wrong, the nurses do a great job and good on them for it , but they could have less 'work  ' if people were allowed to pull their own plugs at their time of choosing.  

Edited January 9, 2023 by WTF

[Jarndyce]

6 minutes ago, WTF said:

don't get me wrong, the nurses do a great job and good on them for it

I think you’ve changed the sense and intent of what you originally wrote.   Fair enough.

[Mysteron]

32 minutes ago, Cinderella said:

What tends to happen is that groups like this throw out lots of very emotive scare stories. Whilst failing to acknowledge that assisted dying is a personal choice - they are perfectly entitled to their beliefs and do not have to partake. 
Having seen my FIL have to take his life, alone and safeguarding his children, I have absolutely no time for such a view. Compassion would have been allowing him to have help and his loved ones with him. He had painful incurable cancer. He had served his country in WWII, and he had to die alone after a worthy and fulfilling life. 

End of rant. 

I wonder how many people change their views towards assisted dying, once they've witnessed a loved one enduring an end similar to your FIL's. 

I certainly changed my views after a close relative became terminally ill.  They knew 12 months before that their condition was terminal, and in the last couple of months they pleaded to be allowed to die as things became uncomfortable and painful.  They also perceived they were a liability, and the stress on the family was palpable at times.  They were still in full control of their faculties until several days before passing, and I think if they could say so now, they'd offer the authors of this leaflet some forthright opinions.

[Numbnuts]

I would sign up for assisted dying for so many reasons. Having lost a partner to cancer very quickly and how she suffered , another good friend to MND, which is a particularly terrible disease, and then my Mum to cancer in Hospice , incidentally 'helped' in the later stages by the nurse upping the meds. With my sister and I consent knowing what upping the morphine ultimately meant. Quality of life was terrible in all cases so while I get its emotive and always will be everyone should have the choice .

Edited January 9, 2023 by Numbnuts

[La_Dolce_Vita]

1 hour ago, Cinderella said:

What tends to happen is that groups like this throw out lots of very emotive scare stories. Whilst failing to acknowledge that assisted dying is a personal choice - they are perfectly entitled to their beliefs and do not have to partake. 
Having seen my FIL have to take his life, alone and safeguarding his children, I have absolutely no time for such a view. Compassion would have been allowing him to have help and his loved ones with him. He had painful incurable cancer. He had served his country in WWII, and he had to die alone after a worthy and fulfilling life. 

End of rant. 

I know what you're saying though if someone is deluded and believes in the existence of the Christian God and, therefore, much or all of the content of the Bible then they think that they are doing the right thing and have obligations to spread their views.  They know it is a personal choice but it's a choice they think will bring the person eternal suffering.  Religion makes good people do bad things

I don't take the view that people are entitled to their beliefs because, of course, we all are, though it is sometimes misunderstood that we should respect such views when it is more helpful to make it plain that they are irrational, silly, and unfit to be in someone's head, nevermind shared.

[hampsterkahn]

The origin of the leaflet isn’t obvious.

At first glance,its appearance  gives an impression it might have been sent by “Gov.” especially as the “Manx Duty if Care” looks a bit like Manx Care”.

Though others see the hallmark of religious groups on it, I have say  it did not suggest a  religious source to me.

However, it appears well-produced and written, voicing the usual concerns that this important issue  generates and in response there will be  counter views.

A review of the Canadian experience of MAIDS -Medical Assistance In Dying  is interesting. 

 

 

Edited January 9, 2023 by hampsterkahn

[Mr Helmut Fromage]

I honestly think most people would support Assisted Dying on humane grounds but sadly it is the usual minority Churches that shout loudest- and still having a Religitard in the House shows how backwards the Tynwald thinking can be - the likes of Little Bobby Onchan won’t front up if his Village suit wearers and church regulars to find a reason to say no.

Pass the law make it an option- if your own personal faith says it’s wrong then that’s fine - don’t sign the form and don’t do it - simple really.

This is the law it’s legal - if you’re church doesn’t agree don’t sign the form.

Peter Murcott and Shit Tie Turton must be turning in their graves.

[Gladys]

There is a slightly different view and that is that medicine rather than alleviating suffering, sometimes prolongs it.  There are some diseases which have only one outcome,  yet it seems that what medicine does is extend the life of the sufferer and so their suffering.  It is a complicated ethical issue, I really understand that.  But rather than have prolonging life as the goal, shouldn't the goal be to lessen suffering?

I have touched on this before, and I  acknowledge the deep ethical conundrum that it presents, but from my own experience I watched my Mum being kept alive for years long after both her mind and body had failed.  She was kept alive with heart drugs, warfarin and pain killers and had little quality of life or dignity, rarely moving from her bed.  It was a lengthy battle against the inevitable that would never be won.

I am not arguing that she should have been 'euthanased', but perhaps the medical intervention that was only postponing the inevitable should have been replaced with medicines that reduced her suffering and pain only.  

[manxman1980]

I am torn over assisted dying.  I generally agree with the idea with appropriate safe guards but what should those safe guards be?

My father was diagnosed with terminal cancer and given 6 months to live.  In the end he lasted 18 months and despite the discomfort lived a good life with only the last day or two being very difficult. 

At what point would assisted dying have been appropriate.  My father was lucky as it could easily have been a very long and painful 18 months but when would you intervene?

[TheTeapot]

3 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

 

At what point would assisted dying have been appropriate.  My father was lucky as it could easily have been a very long and painful 18 months but when would you intervene?

When did he ask?

[Gladys]

1 minute ago, manxman1980 said:

I am torn over assisted dying.  I generally agree with the idea with appropriate safe guards but what should those safe guards be?

My father was diagnosed with terminal cancer and given 6 months to live.  In the end he lasted 18 months and despite the discomfort lived a good life with only the last day or two being very difficult. 

At what point would assisted dying have been appropriate.  My father was lucky as it could easily have been a very long and painful 18 months but when would you intervene?

If he was of sound mind, etc. when he wanted the intervention, if at all.   None of this is imposing assisted dying on anyone who is able to decide and doesn't want it. 

[paswt]

1 hour ago, WTF said:

bed bound  terminally ill people with no quality of life  don't look after themselves do they , it is quite ironic that our 'humane' termination of any other suffering animal on the planet doesn't  actually apply to 'humans'.  my mother died of cancer and wanted to be put out of her misery months before she eventually died after wasting away to the point of looking like an anorexic extra out of schindlers list . she was suffering, she knew it ( till her head went ). being a retired nurse she knew what was coming and wanted to avoid it, she spent her last months in great discomfort and barely tolerable levels of pain quite often ,  so yes, she was kept alive against her will and people were employed to keep her going as long as practicably possible .  don't get me wrong, the nurses do a great job and good on them for it , but they could have less 'work  ' if people were allowed to pull their own plugs at their time of choosing.  

Similar experience with my old mum, only difference is that she didn't want to go  ( while her head was OK ) which is fair enough. Terrible at the end but she had her wish of 'dying in her own bed in her own home her own time '.

That said I would regard anyone who stipulated that I could/should not end my own life impertinent ,they should just fuck off and mind their own business.

I would not presume to advise them how they should conduct their life/death  and would be grateful if they would afford me the same courtesy. 

I have a friend who has a stash of pills , sufficient to end his life , when ,in his words "has had enough" because he would hate to incriminate his friends/relatives by asking for assistance . I salute him and in a similar position would do the same.

Just saying

I 

Edited January 9, 2023 by paswt