Ringy Rose Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Yibble said: I didn't read the headline that way. The first line of the article also made things very clear: "Three doctors have spoken out against proposals to legalise assisted dying." My views on the matter are, I think, closer to yours than theirs. However I thought it was a well-positioned article and I thought they expressed ther own views professionally and with sensitivity to those who may think otherwise. https://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/doctors-oppose-assisted-dying-legislation-586505 I'd agree. I may not agree entirely with them, but I think they set their position out sensitively and coherently. It's also worth noting that Dr Harris is one of the senior medics at Hospice, so he very much does know what he is talking about, and rightly points out that things like "suffering" and "time left to live" are more of an opinion than a medical fact. My view is that I don't know what I'd want for me until I was in that position. Now, as a healthy middle-aged long-tail, I'd want a bolt when I get too weak and pained. But I don't know whether I'll think the same when faced with the reality. I also do fear that people will be pressured, or feel pressured, into not being a "burden". Edited January 9, 2023 by Ringy Rose 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 7 minutes ago, Ringy Rose said: I'd agree. I may not agree entirely with them, but I think they set their position out sensitively and coherently. It's also worth noting that Dr Harris is one of the senior medics at Hospice, so he very much does know what he is talking about, and rightly points out that things like "suffering" and "time left to live" are more of an opinion than a medical fact. My view is that I don't know what I'd want for me until I was in that position. Now, as a healthy middle-aged long-tail, I'd want a bolt when I get too weak and pained. But I don't know whether I'll think the same when faced with the reality. I also do fear that people will be pressured, or feel pressured, into not being a "burden". People seeing £££££££ will be the biggest hurdle to overcome! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 1 minute ago, manxman1980 said: It wasn't really something that was discussed then. I appreciate that. I just find it difficult to define at what point I would want such an intervention to happen I guess. In my father's case the decline was very rapid and he was gone with a couple of days. Once that decline happened he was not in a fit state to give consent. Perhaps if it had been available, it would have been something that people in your father's position may have considered and decided their wishes earlier in their illness. It would have been an option available which may or may not have been chosen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilly Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 I received this leaflet this morning too delivered by iom post, l found it unclear who actually sent it! After reading it l search iom gov on assisted dying and you can give your opinion on this very important subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpha-acid Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 56 minutes ago, Yibble said: I didn't read the headline that way. The first line of the article also made things very clear: "Three doctors have spoken out against proposals to legalise assisted dying." My views on the matter are, I think, closer to yours than theirs. However I thought it was a well-positioned article and I thought they expressed ther own views professionally and with sensitivity to those who may think otherwise. https://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/doctors-oppose-assisted-dying-legislation-586505 Some doctor eh, take 385 tablets in 5 mins has he not heard of injections Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcousticallyChallenged Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 43 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: Women ( and men) have the freedom of choice to use contraception. What does body autonomy mean? Autonomy to self harm etc? Does the man not have a say in this? If I was the co creator of a life I think I should have some sort of say in that. Contraception, regrettably, is never 100% effective. With all the best will in the world, and with best efforts, you can still fall pregnant. Abstinence doesn’t work, teenage pregnancy is often much higher where abstinence is taught. Bear in mind that staunch pro-lifers will argue that even in cases of rape, a baby should be carried to term. Imagine the trauma a victim would have throughout that process. They’re also often against contraception as that’s interfering with divine will. The irony is, as soon as a child is born into poverty, the support for them can be immensely limited, leaving them at a lifelong disadvantage. 45 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: Im not going off on a rant and as I say my life has not been touched by having been to deal with the abortion issue and I’m grateful for that When does a life begin? And when does one have more value than another? An accidental baby can fundamentally change the quality of life for the rest of a family. Do the needs of the many outweigh those of some unborn cells? Some would argue that the foetus has more rights to life than the mother, and that even a pregnancy threatening the mothers life should not be terminated. I am firmly of the belief that those with a uterus are the ones that should have the say in what they can do with it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 They should have had the guts to say who they were on the leaflet....if they are delivering it to people's houses. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 22 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said: They should have had the guts to say who they were on the leaflet....if they are delivering it to people's houses. And take the flak when they don't need to? Why would you... In my experience where it gets messy is when someone with dementia who is also terminally ill asks you to just pick up a pillow and end it. By then, of course, others have power of attorney. How would assisted dying legislation deal with that...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 13 minutes ago, P.K. said: And take the flak when they don't need to? Why would you... Where do you draw the line though?...you could end up with all kinds of nutcase post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 2 hours ago, P.K. said: And take the flak when they don't need to? Why would you... In my experience where it gets messy is when someone with dementia who is also terminally ill asks you to just pick up a pillow and end it. By then, of course, others have power of attorney. How would assisted dying legislation deal with that...? It is pretty obvious, I hope, that a power of attorney could not cover this. It would be mad if the enabling legislation allowed a poa holder to make that decision. Where you think it gets messy has, I suspect, been messy for a very long time. But as I understand it, this will not cover that situation because of the legal mental capacity requirements. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcousticallyChallenged Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 7 hours ago, P.K. said: And take the flak when they don't need to? Why would you... In my experience where it gets messy is when someone with dementia who is also terminally ill asks you to just pick up a pillow and end it. By then, of course, others have power of attorney. How would assisted dying legislation deal with that...? Given the choice, I would absolutely have a signed document saying that a loss of my mental faculties (if I have any left currently) that my next of kin could make that decision for me. The bill here is for those who are “mentally competent” but terminally ill. A patient with dementia asking for a pillow likely wouldn’t meet that test. Presently, for people that head off to Dignitas, they have to themselves call the time when they’re still able to travel there themselves and take the drugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genericUserName Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 We should be able to opt out of receiving unsolicited junk mail and leaflets from IOM Post Office. And they definitely should not be providing junk mail services as a revenue source. ASAP letters should be phased out in an era of email. The very few geniunely essential letters would be sent at real cost as, essentially, small packages via one or other of the parcel services. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinderella Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 6 hours ago, Gladys said: It is pretty obvious, I hope, that a power of attorney could not cover this. It would be mad if the enabling legislation allowed a poa holder to make that decision. Where you think it gets messy has, I suspect, been messy for a very long time. But as I understand it, this will not cover that situation because of the legal mental capacity requirements. Power of Attorney would have nothing to do with this. POA is purely about financial decisions. A Do Not Resuscitate is very important if you don’t want medical teams to revive you. But the IoM does not have a missing piece in the middle about medical wishes (advance directive). Exists in UK but not here. Just been at advocates with my mum going through all of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 Just now, Cinderella said: Power of Attorney would have nothing to do with this. POA is purely about financial decisions. A Do Not Resuscitate is very important if you don’t want medical teams to revive you. But the IoM does not have a missing piece in the middle about medical wishes (advance directive). Exists in UK but not here. Just been at advocates with my mum going through all of this. Pretty sure the enduring poa I had covered medical matters too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinderella Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 18 minutes ago, genericUserName said: We should be able to opt out of receiving unsolicited junk mail and leaflets from IOM Post Office. And they definitely should not be providing junk mail services as a revenue source. ASAP letters should be phased out in an era of email. The very few geniunely essential letters would be sent at real cost as, essentially, small packages via one or other of the parcel services. All mail like this (hand delivered or Royal Mail) should have to have declaration at bottom saying who authorised it and who paid for it. This would usually concern political stuff in lead up to elections but would capture this. If they are not prepared be upfront with who they are, it deserves to go straight in the bin. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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