Will the SPCo destroy what tourism sector we have left?

[Max Power]

The SPCo were clearing £10m profit pa prior to the takeover.

I don’t think that they need a subsidy in view of the increases in fares since then?

I know costs have increased but as I say, a strategic fares policy would maximise the use and profits!

[0bserver]

46 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said:

Basic economics fella, you're letting your own opinion distort the facts, not for the first time.

The Government doesn't subsidise the finance sector. 

There's a economic ecosystem that allows companies the operate here that otherwise wouldn't. 

 

That's totally different from taking cash that could otherwise be spent on health or education, and subsidising geriatric coach trips to the island. 

[A fool and his money.....]

31 minutes ago, 0bserver said:

The Government doesn't subsidise the finance sector. 

There's a economic ecosystem that allows companies the operate here that otherwise wouldn't. 

 

That's totally different from taking cash that could otherwise be spent on health or education, and subsidising geriatric coach trips to the island. 

Surely a more diverse economy is a good thing. A lot of our finance sector is becoming morally unpalatable in the wider world, it's already shrunk considerably - it would be very short sighted to rely on it into the future. Perhaps we should spread the subsidies around a bit. 

Stop taking cash that could otherwise be spent on health or education and subsidising the corporation tax of rich companies and create an economic ecosystem that allows tourist to visit here that otherwise wouldn't.

[woolley]

5 hours ago, A fool and his money..... said:

Surely a more diverse economy is a good thing. A lot of our finance sector is becoming morally unpalatable in the wider world, it's already shrunk considerably - it would be very short sighted to rely on it into the future. Perhaps we should spread the subsidies around a bit. 

Stop taking cash that could otherwise be spent on health or education and subsidising the corporation tax of rich companies and create an economic ecosystem that allows tourist to visit here that otherwise wouldn't.

Of course a more diverse economy is a good thing, but to believe that we are subsidising the finance sector is the mother of all delusions. Where do you reckon the money we CURRENTLY spend on health and education, not to mention the vast army of government pen pushers is coming from? It's a mixture of VAT and taxes from the finance sector. There is no subsidy. There is a framework within which the sector operates and provides a subsidy to the Island. This is a fact.

[Hoops]

7 hours ago, woolley said:

Of course a more diverse economy is a good thing, but to believe that we are subsidising the finance sector is the mother of all delusions. Where do you reckon the money we CURRENTLY spend on health and education, not to mention the vast army of government pen pushers is coming from? It's a mixture of VAT and taxes from the finance sector. There is no subsidy. There is a framework within which the sector operates and provides a subsidy to the Island. This is a fact.

Of course, they've been able to, and justified, creating this over-bloated civil service precisely because of the income the sector once brought in.

The amount paid to members of this one sector also caused the gross inflation of house prices that perhaps stops people moving here and making a more diverse economy. The CBA on this one would be all encompassing.

[asitis]

I was skim reading but think I just read Norwegian shipping lines have banned electric vehicles on ships as the fire risk is too great ? Not equipped to fight lithium battery fires at sea. That Tesla is looking cheaper still !!

[John Wright]

2 hours ago, asitis said:

I was skim reading but think I just read Norwegian shipping lines have banned electric vehicles on ships as the fire risk is too great ? Not equipped to fight lithium battery fires at sea. That Tesla is looking cheaper still !!

It’s one company, Havila Kystruten, which operates four coastal ferries along the coast serving up to 34 ports. They’re also limiting some fossil fuelled vehicles loading and unloading ports to each terminus rather than intermediate ports..

They've a new fleet. Ironically very Green gas and battery electric. Their web site boasts the ships are equipped with the largest battery packs in the world.

A round trip, Bergen to Kirkenes to Bergen calls in at all 34 ports and takes 13 days ( some ports are only called into outward and others inward )

[Non-Believer]

[monasqueen]

In relation to Norwegian ships.... from various sources:

"For safety reasons, Havila Kystruten is banning electric, hybrid and hydrogen cars from its ships sailing along Norway's mail boat route."

https://businessportal-norwegen.com/2023/01/16/havila-kystruten-nimmt-keine-elektroautos-mehr-an-bord/

"While the company (Havila) will continue to transport fossil-fuel cars, they have also decided to limit the boarding and disembarking of private vehicles to only Bergen and Kirkenes, and not intermediate ports on the route. They said they would make exceptions for service vehicles for personnel who are doing necessary work on board the company's ships and for emergency vehicles."

Competitor Hurtigruten says they have "moved cars between all ports for 40 years and they’re going well. We have no plans to stop it"

"EVs are widely believed to have contributed
to the fire 11 months ago that destroyed the car carrier FELICITY ACE while the vessel was in the middle of the Atlantic."

The Felicity Ace eventually sank, with 3,965 cars on board (mostly by then write-offs).

See https://gcaptain.com/lithium-ion-batteries-electric-vehicles-aboard-felicity-ace-keeping-fire-alive/

Ferry companies are understandably worried about the risks, and at least some are looking into changes that may have to  be made.

It's bad enough having to worry about e-bikes - https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/peel-fire-caused-by-e-bike/

 

 

[Andy Onchan]

https://www.visitisleofman.com/trade/marketing-our-island/marketing-strategy/campaign-overview

[A fool and his money.....]

17 hours ago, woolley said:

Of course a more diverse economy is a good thing, but to believe that we are subsidising the finance sector is the mother of all delusions. Where do you reckon the money we CURRENTLY spend on health and education, not to mention the vast army of government pen pushers is coming from? It's a mixture of VAT and taxes from the finance sector. There is no subsidy. There is a framework within which the sector operates and provides a subsidy to the Island. This is a fact.

There's always a reason for a subsidy, Government don't just hand them out for the sake of it. Farmers get subsidies because government want us to be able produce some of our own food, Manx Radio get a subsidy because the government want us to have a public service broadcaster. Limited companies get a subsidy because the government want to stimulate a finance sector to provide employment (and therefore make money from taxing that employment) that's the reason for the subsidy, but it is still a subsidy.

Now, you may well argue, as you are, that the government make more money from the subsidy than the subsidy actually costs, in which case it's a good idea from a purely financial point of view. It doesn't mean it's not a subsidy though.

I also think it's highly debatable how effective this particular subsidy is. It seems to me that 0/10 was born from a race to the bottom with other tax havens rather than any scientific analysis of its economic impact. I would put money on nobody in government having the foggiest idea of what effect a small or otherwise percentage increase in corporation tax would have here. In some way it would be impossible to know and I guess while 0/10 was working for us we arguably didn't need to know.

I think the day we can't afford public services or these services are being stretched beyond breaking point though is a day we have to consider these things though. We are currently living through a cost of living crisis, a housing crisis and an aging population crisis which means our current problem are only going to get worse in the future unless we act now.

I get that you think the finance sector is a Panacea for the IOM, probably because you work in it and make a lot of money from it. I think though having bent over backwards for it for 40 odd years, with health, housing etc. now on its knees and the prospect of having to constantly import tens of thousands more people to pay for our public services, it's only right that 0/10 is acknowledged as the mother of subsidies as it is, and then given some scrutiny into its effectiveness that goes beyond rich bankers and people like yourself spouting "spuds and herring" to protect their own interests and hoping the great unwashed aren't cocky enough to question their superior knowledge.

[asitis]

4 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

https://www.visitisleofman.com/trade/marketing-our-island/marketing-strategy/campaign-overview

Why is it almost everything you read these days has a feint odour of excrement of the large male bovine about it !

 

[Non-Believer]

7 minutes ago, asitis said:

Why is it almost everything you read these days has a feint odour of excrement of the large male bovine about it !

 

Nothing "faint" about it.....

[0bserver]

22 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

https://www.visitisleofman.com/trade/marketing-our-island/marketing-strategy/campaign-overview

Why are they launching their marketing campaign now when the peak holiday booking period was apparently over the Blue Monday weekend?

[A fool and his money.....]

4 minutes ago, 0bserver said:

Why are they launching their marketing campaign now when the peak holiday booking period was apparently over the Blue Monday weekend?

The mistaken belief that finance will get us through?