Gay Marriages

[Steven]

Read all this took a while but was an interesting view of opposing opioins + disagreaments/ agreaments!

 

To follow on from what i said on the other + same topic started by sam_iom which was closed due to there being real benefit in having 2 topics being debated on the same subject?

 

The male/female sexual reproduction organs are different + complementary to one another for specific reasons!!!

 

Maybe aids, which is triggered by the HIV retro virus, is a consequence of male + male sexual intercourse + or other sexual practices?

Only theory as yet of course, but maybe some kinda mutation has occoured which may be via the intereactions of male SPECIFIC DNA coding within the Y male chromosome which we are unaware could somehow occour? maybe via a previous unknown mutation of normal fertilization? resulting in a virus that attacks + destroys T-helper cells?

Could of course be due to other reasons? we dont know YET.

 

But maybe aids is natures way of letting us know that same sex relationships are wrong?

 

I dont therfore. agrea with same gender sexual relations + interactions as its only a matter of time before the HIV virus mutates to become transmitable via other easier methods of transmission between humans.

 

But dont worry a vaccine is nearly been developed

its just tricky coz the virus mutates so oftern!

[Gladys]

Some experts were postulating that the HIV/AIDS virus crossed species from monkeys to humans so if you want to take the moral viewpoint thent he unnatural practices which allowed this cross-species jump is to blame. However, homosexual practices are not the only way in which the virus is transmitted; by way of bodily fluid which gives a multitude of opportuntities for transmission!

 

It is also misguided, IMHO, to confuse morality with the science of disease transmission. The danger is that when you take a moral viewpoint, the next step is to decide who deserved to have the particular disease and then, possibly, how they are treated? It is also not scientifically sound to blame the morality of afflicted individuals as this blinds efforts to identify the true cause.

 

Is the treatment of other diseases such as Avian flu, cancer, heart disease, etc. etc. affected by morality, or do the people who sadly suffer from these diseases in some way deserve it??

[ans]

Read all this took a while but was an interesting view of opposing opioins + disagreaments/ agreaments!

 

To follow on from what i said on the other + same topic started by sam_iom which was closed due to there being real benefit in having 2 topics being debated on  the same subject?

 

The male/female  sexual reproduction organs are different + complementary to one another for specific reasons!!!

 

Maybe aids, which is triggered  by the HIV retro virus, is a consequence of  male + male sexual intercourse + or other sexual practices?

Only theory as yet of course, but maybe some kinda mutation has occoured which may be via the intereactions of male SPECIFIC DNA coding within the Y male chromosome which we are unaware could somehow occour? maybe via a previous unknown mutation of normal fertilization?  resulting in a virus that  attacks + destroys T-helper cells?

Could of course be due to other reasons? we dont know YET.

 

But maybe aids is natures way of letting us know that same sex relationships are wrong?

 

I dont therfore. agrea with same gender sexual relations + interactions as its only a matter of time before the HIV virus mutates to become transmitable via other easier methods of transmission between humans.

 

But dont worry a vaccine is nearly been developed 

its just tricky coz the virus mutates so oftern!

[Keristal]

The male/female  sexual reproduction organs are different + complementary to one another for specific reasons!!!

 

Maybe aids, which is triggered  by the HIV retro virus, is a consequence of  male + male sexual intercourse + or other sexual practices?

Only theory as yet of course, but maybe some kinda mutation has occoured which may be via the intereactions of male SPECIFIC DNA coding within the Y male chromosome which we are unaware could somehow occour? maybe via a previous unknown mutation of normal fertilization?  resulting in a virus that  attacks + destroys T-helper cells?

Could of course be due to other reasons? we dont know YET.

 

But maybe aids is natures way of letting us know that same sex relationships are wrong?

 

I dont therfore. agrea with same gender sexual relations + interactions as its only a matter of time before the HIV virus mutates to become transmitable via other easier methods of transmission between humans.

 

But dont worry a vaccine is nearly been developed 

its just tricky coz the virus mutates so oftern!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm sorry, but where the hell have you been for the last twenty odd years? How about the almost overwhelming AIDS problem in sub Saharan Africa in the 'straight' population have you seen the other thread on 'Macho Men & Aids'?, India's Aids problem is in the hetero population too, the former Soviet Union is in trouble too after years of denial and if it's the male chromozomes causing the problem how are nursing mothers able to transmit the virus to their babies, male & female? China is also just starting to admit there's an Aids problem. I get the impression you haven't looked at any research more recent than the early 1980s.

[P.K.]

The terminology you use is very outdated and offensive whtehre deliberate or accidental.  Your crap about smells of people of various races distracts from the point yet even so it's bullxxxx and I don't understand it other than saying that not everyone chooses to use Lynx aftershave.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We have been here before and I find it interesting. If you post a simple fact that you despise homosexuals you will stupidly be accused of homophobia and overstepping some invisible made up mark. Equally if you state another inassailable fact that different races smell (including White Anglo-Saxon i.e. my own) you then get rediculous accusations of racism. I'm amazed that a teacher cannot understand such a simple analogy.

 

 

The last time I heard 'poofter' used was in the 1980's.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So call me old-fashioned. Actually it was used in a recent Barry Beelzebub piece tbh (I think).

 

Put down your Daily Mail and wake up!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry, lifelong Grauniad reader so to me The Daily Mail is a comic somewhere to the right of Genghis Khan.

 

What makes a gay marriage a 'sham'?  Why would their ceremony be a sham?  I'm a bleeding-heart lentil-eating jobsworth and proud yet you haven't actually posed a question for me to answer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh really? How about this one then that you seem to have missed:

 

If they want the same legal rights as "married" couples then fine but I'm sure they don't need to go through sham ceremonies to obtain them. So why do they see it as important? As I am not homosexual I'm afraid I can't answer that one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Or this one you missed as well:

 

Maybe it's unrealistic but I hope that the moderators or Admin will remove his comment.  You may think he's entitled to his comments but I don't think he is when he's spreading hatred without any evidence to back it up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Show me where I am spreading hatred?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

By all means answer away.....

[Chinahand]

We have been here before and I find it interesting. If you post a simple fact that you despise homosexuals you will stupidly be accused of homophobia and overstepping some invisible made up mark. Equally if you state another inassailable fact that different races smell (including White Anglo-Saxon i.e. my own) you then get rediculous accusations of racism. I'm amazed that a teacher cannot understand such a simple analogy.

 

I still think you are totally wrong about this. Lets use a racist Chinaman its easier than using you as an example as it personalizes it too much. Lets assume this Chinese citizen hates what he calls "the cheesey smell of westerners". He's on a plane and sees walking down the aisle toward the seat next to him is a western businessmen. "Oh no 8 hours of stink" thinks our racist; he gets in a bad mood is crappy and unpolite. But this particular businessman is allergic to milk, has lived in Sichuan (四川 I'm intrigued if the characters are visible ... are they to you lot with non asian fonts?) for years eating spicey noodles and smells exactly the same as our bigoted gent.

 

The westerner has been treated prejudicially. A unwarranted bias has been created in the mind of our bigot which has been unfairly put onto this particular westerner. The racist assumes certain characteristics due to a person's physical morphology that has NOTHING to do with that physical morphology. If a non-caucasian lives in Douglas, buys the same food as you do from Shoprite, uses your particular brand of deoderant and hair gel ... well guess what he'll smell the same as you no matter what colour they are or what shape their eyes or nose is.

 

Also I don't understand why you don't get the difference between an objective difference and a subjective opinion based on that difference. You say you hate homosexuals because they aren't involved in the evolutionary process ... seems an odd reason to me, but there you go! Do you also hate monks, priests and little spinsters who never wanted to bother with that sort of thing and are just happy with their cat?

 

What justifies that hatred? If someone says they hate a certain people because they smell, or look different from them how is that hatred justified? If this racist had a cold, or were blind they'd have no idea of the smell or colour of the person they were meeting; and then their prejustice wouldn't kick in. Imagine a temporarily blinded racist nursed by a black nurse ... ignorant of the cause of his dislike he would judge them by there actions and find then either acceptable or unacceptable. But his attitude towards this person would be based on objective criteria not a subjective bias!

[Declan]

The male/female  sexual reproduction organs are different + complementary to one another for specific reasons!!!

 

Maybe aids, which is triggered  by the HIV retro virus, is a consequence of  male + male sexual intercourse + or other sexual practices?

Only theory as yet of course, but maybe some kinda mutation has occoured which may be via the intereactions of male SPECIFIC DNA coding within the Y male chromosome which we are unaware could somehow occour? maybe via a previous unknown mutation of normal fertilization?  resulting in a virus that  attacks + destroys T-helper cells?

Could of course be due to other reasons? we dont know YET.

 

But maybe aids is natures way of letting us know that same sex relationships are wrong?

 

I dont therfore. agrea with same gender sexual relations + interactions as its only a matter of time before the HIV virus mutates to become transmitable via other easier methods of transmission between humans.

 

But dont worry a vaccine is nearly been developed 

its just tricky coz the virus mutates so oftern!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

An awful lot of maybes to back up a conclusion. The truth is there is no evidence to back up anything you have said. So you have used a whole heap of conjecture to make a sweeping proposal.

 

Then you write "as its only a matter of time before the HIV virus mutates to become transmitable via other easier methods of transmission between humans." Again this is conjecture, although this time at least it is backed by a bit of science in that viruses do mutate and the way they are transmitted does change. Yet there is no guarantee or even liklihood that AIDS will mutate into a more transmittable form.

 

In any event given the amount of AIDS amongst the hetrosexual population (particularly in Africa) whether homosexual sex continues or not is immaterial. If it is going to mutate it will anyway.

[theintelligentthug]

I would doubt if being "gay" is the result of genetics as the chances of someone "gay" passing on their dna to the next generation is somewhat limited. Unless, of course, it is a genetic disorder. Discuss....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

maybe natures way of stopping an unwanted increase in population. there are theories that state that the planet is actually a living organism, capapble of feeding, or killing off parasites for one reason or another. not my theory, but im just forwarding it.

[Gladys]

Hi Thug, I kind of agree with your postulation, it does seem that Mother Nature, God, or whatever, has away of equalising everything. Some things may not be in a particular specie's interests, but overall the planet continues!! As we have mastered the various fatal illnesses, others come along to replace what has been conquered.

 

Interesting, but I don't buy it as a reason for homosexuality, its probably more complicated because humans have cogniscance (probably spelt that incorrectly), which results in things like morality and seeing the outcome of actions! But, I do have to agree with you as to the source of disease.

[theintelligentthug]

well, i hate to say it, but im actually kinda religious, and it does in a way fit in with my faith.

 

at the end of it all, we're never going to find out what causes abnormalities (in the sense that abnormal is a detraction from the majority), because, in the words of a very excellent thinker ;"if our brains were simple enough to understand them, we'd be so simple that we couldnt."

 

i cant remember who said that.

[Gladys]

Probably you! But point understood!

[Declan]

You mean like Gaia?

 

It appears unlikely to me. The role of sex, indeed of life, is the propagation of DNA in general and for the continuence of each species. There is not a directing hand (or nature's way) which spots that one species is overpopulating and seeks to curtail its growth.

 

Differences in genes are chance mutations. Whether these mutations occur once or become a change in the species' genetic make-up really depends on whether it increases the chance of that individual staying alive long enough to reproduce.

 

This would suggest that homosexuality (if it is genetic cause) should die out as those possessing that gene would die out without reproducing. Now it has been suggested that gays have been forced to put aside this genetic impulse by society's scorn and religion and have therefore been able to reproduce and pass on the gay gene. I don't really accept this explaination because the length of time there has been "society" or "religion" is very short in comparisson to the length of time there have been genetic humans.

 

More likely, is that "gayness" has been present in the population for a long time and that there was something about men with the gay gene that made them attractive enough to certain females that they chose to breed with them. Whether this was that they were more empathetic towards the ladies, or more nurturing of children or just had better taste in mammoth skin scatter cushions I don't know.

[theintelligentthug]

Declan; i understand your points, however the theory ive been reading up on is exactly that; a theory, nothing more. Simplexity and Complicity. its all very complicated but it has relevant questions that cant be answered.

 

at least not yet. a guiding hand is unlikely, but not impossible. the genetics idea is likely, but not definite.

 

and thats kinda the point; any theory we make up is just speculation, or at best, a "brain-pun"; it makes sense to us, and our rather limited understanding of the world.

 

 

glad to be back; it wasnt me, does that mean you thinkim an excellent thinker? wow, they love me, they love me!!!

[Declan]

Well additional facts can emerge that mean a theory ceases to be a theory. For example the theory that the Earth orbits the sun. I would also suggest that given what we know and have observed about genes Darwin's Theory is proven as well.

 

However, my last post was speculative. I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear.

[Gladys]

Hi Declan

 

I am not religious in the traditional sense at all, but I do think there is something which over the eons maintains a "stasis". This does not favour one species over another, but maintains the overall balance.

 

Perhaps "gayness" has arisen because, as a highly developed species, we have a choice? Someone will probably correct me, but are we not the only species (apart from Chimpanzees, I think, who also indulge in murderous activities) that indulge in recreational sex?

 

Perhaps also, the enjoyment is something in the evolutionary development! In most animals, copulation is an overpowering urge that needs to be sated, not much enjoyment, but once done its gone, out of the way for another season. Perhaps when higher intelligence enters, then more importance is put on the act?

 

I don't know, but would we put more importance on, say, breathing as a natural activity if we didn't have the social structure to maintain?