Gay Marriages

[P.K.]

I have him filtered out so I can't even see the post to do anything with it. I might rewrite my GM script to parse out quoted text too, that would be better.

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You're in danger of over-playing that one you know, IMHO of course......

 

Why dont you delete that post and just put it down to a temporary character lapse. Im sure you realise you may have overstepped the mark.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Overstepped whose mark exactly? I have posted my opinion honestly held. It's called freedom of expression. Worth a Ha ha ha I think....

 

"To me it is not intolerance" - explain that one after saying you despise them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have, to me, a very good reason to despise them. That is why it is not intolerance which would need to have no reason. I trust you can understand the difference?

 

You are the perfect example of a small minority of Manx people stuck in the 19th century who are uncomfortable with their own sexuality to the extent that they can't tolerate anyone they consider to be different.

 

Your comments about people of different races are also despicable - are there any current laws on the island against racial descrimination and hatred.  I would like to see P.K's comments passed onto the local authorities if possible...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Me uncomfortable with my own sexuality? From someone who has probably never met me as well. Currently ans is front runner for "Most Stupid Post Of The Year Award 2005" for certain assertions such as I take myself seriously hence his (probably feigned) reluctance to view my posts. I thought at the time that his position was unassailable but now I'm not so sure.

 

My comments about people of different races is simply true. To deny it is like ignoring the fact you may have big ears, or ginger hair, or a particularly unpleasant expression. It's just another physical attribute. Although it took a lot my Japanese colleagues eventually had to admit that to them I smelt quite bad, but no worse than any other European which was a relief.

 

Maybe it's unrealistic but I hope that the moderators or Admin will remove his comment.  You may think he's entitled to his comments but I don't think he is when he's spreading hatred without any evidence to back it up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Show me where I am spreading hatred? After all, as you have said I am entitled to my opinions as you are to yours.

[cheesemonster2005]

Thankfully Tynwald have half a brain between them it seems.

 

Section 38 Law could be axed

 

A proposal is being introduced which will allow the teaching and discussion of homosexuality in Manx schools however the IOM newspapers refers to it as 'promotion' of homosexuality just to provoke people P.K.

[P.K.]

So Tynwald's just a few years behind then..

 

I think the "promotion" bit is just a poor use of English, they probably mean promoting knowledge of the practices.

[cheesemonster2005]

So Tynwald's just a few years behind then..

 

I think the "promotion" bit is just a poor use of English, they probably mean promoting knowledge of the practices.

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What like they do with heterosexual sex education? I don't remember being taught the art of doggy style at SNHS and I doubt they would be doing so when teaching about homosexual relationships.

[P.K.]

Rearrange these words into a well known phrase or saying:

 

"obtuse" and "deliberately"

 

It's so much easier than actually responding to posts n'est ce pas?

[Lucky]

Does the island have a gay area or specific gay bar yet? 

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The best place to go is Guys & Dolls. Its open on Friday and Saturday nights.

 

Its the best place in Douglas to go for a night out whether your straight or gay. My Fiance and I go there alot, we are even having our engagement party there.

 

The music is fantastic, very cheesy! Don't you just love cheesy music?

[Lucky]

But as far as teaching homosexuality in schools - hmmmmmmmm not so sure on that one.  For gods sake they can't even get hetrosexuality right in schools!  I think maybe a general education relating to the emotional side of relationships (regardless of sexual orientation) would be more beneficial.  What about the actual sex education side of it?, how would you suggest they deal with that?  Reckon that could be somewhat tricky don't you think? I think we are certainly, as a society, a long way off from that happening!

 

 

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You can't teach someone about the emotional side of a relationship as everybody deals with their own emotions differently.

 

They should show videos like they do in hetrosexual sex education, give out leaflets and books.

 

It certainly is a long way off for the iom as most of them are so backwards and stuck in the ways about certain things judging by alot of the comments on this thread.

[cheesemonster2005]

You can't teach someone about the emotional side of a relationship as everybody deals with their own emotions differently.

 

They should show videos like they do in hetrosexual sex education, give out leaflets and books.

 

It certainly is a long way off for the iom as most of them are so backwards and stuck in the ways about certain things judging by alot of the comments on this thread.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I quite agree. Emotions are left to the individual and schools usually emphasise this. In sex education they try not to teach what is right but to give a range of ideas. The same would apply for gay relationships.

 

Videos, leaflets and books would be welcome even if embarrassing for many kids - and probably for many of the MF posters.

[Survivor]

You can't teach someone about the emotional side of a relationship as everybody deals with their own emotions differently.

 

They should show videos like they do in hetrosexual sex education, give out leaflets and books.

 

It certainly is a long way off for the iom as most of them are so backwards and stuck in the ways about certain things judging by alot of the comments on this thread.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Of course you can teach the emotional side. I think it would be better that people knew how to treat others in relationships, not just sexually, but common decency etc. You are right when you say people deal with emotions differently, but can't the basics be taught, just as we were taught our manners as children? Do you not think it better that people are taught about how emotionally challenging it can be to a person when they even think they might be gay? Or even how to overcome puberty in general rather than just the mechanical workings of our bodies? And wouldn't it be better to teach people to accept others who might be different from them in sexual orientation?

 

Why should it be separated anyway - why the need to have manuals for hetrosexuals and manuals for homosexuals - as you stated before, we are all human, so why differentiate between the two?

 

Just becuase you, myself and others don't necessarily understand or condone peoples views like P.K for example, doesn't make them backward, or stuck in their ways. I see P.K said he had his reasons, he doesn't have to say what they are to us - but they are his reasons.

[Chinahand]

My comments about people of different races is simply true. To deny it is like ignoring the fact you may have big ears, or ginger hair, or a particularly unpleasant expression. It's just another physical attribute. Although it took a lot my Japanese colleagues eventually had to admit that to them I smelt quite bad, but no worse than any other European which was a relief.

 

Firstly you are confusing cultural influences with racial ones

Secondly you’re changing an objective difference into a subjective opinion on that difference.

Thirdly you seem to think that if something is genetic your prejudices are fine.

I think you are wrong on every count.

 

You are right that Asian people find westerners have a strange smell, but this has NOTHING to do with our genetics and everything to do with our cultures. Westerners smell of milk and cheese and the smells and farts of the bacteria which eat it in our guts and yep various asian friends of mine have commented on it. BUT this is NOT a genetic issue, but cultural. If we didn't eat cheese and milk we wouldn't smell to east asians, or if they ate more of the same they wouldn't notice because they'd have that smell too!

 

My guess the change will be east asians eating more cheese: the Chinese are changing from an culture that had almost no milk or cheese in its diet to one that sees these as good ways of promoting healthy growth; and hence a nation famous for being small is now producing NBA basket ball players and a huge generational change in average height.

 

But you are also raising a very different issue. You're not saying they smell strange, or differently. You are saying you don't like the smell. You've changed something objective into something subjective.

 

And you seem to feel justified in saying these subjective dislikes are fine because they are genetic and then you link that into your disgust about homosexual behaviour. Why does a genetic effect make your intolerance acceptable?

 

Are you really saying its OK to be disgusted by ginger hair or discriminate against people with large ears or noses; to allow genetics to set our social mores and rules? The Nazis measured people’s degree of Arian-ness via the nose and ear measurements, the Apartheid regime defined whiteness by how easily a comb fell from the hair. Did these objective tests make their behaviour justifiable?

 

This thread isn't about your particular likes and dislikes its about how we should attempt to regulate our society in all the complexity it manifests. You may wish the whole world was just like you, but it isn't and we make laws and policy to try to deal with that complexity.

 

If they [homosexuals] want the same legal rights as "married" couples then fine

 

You say its fine for homosexuals to marry, fine and good. Just say that and please don't try to justify your lack of tolerance and unwillingness to accept we live in a diverse society.

 

Whether a difference is genetic, or cultural is irrelevant. And using subjective likes and dislikes to make laws and regulations tends to make very bad law.

[ButterflyMaiden]

Why dont you delete that post and just put it down to a temporary character lapse. Im sure you realise you may have overstepped the mark.

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Overstepped whose mark exactly? I have posted my opinion honestly held. It's called freedom of expression. Worth a Ha ha ha I think....

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I dont know you PK and I certainly dont have an axe to grind. However, if, as you say, you live in the UK, you are fully aware where the mores of respectable society lie. The content and the context of your original post would cause most reasonable people to be concerned. I am beginning to wonder (at the risk of upsetting the Bard) if perhaps "The lady protests too much methinks " ... and Ill resist the obvious temptation to suggest that's worth a ha ha ha ... after all that would be remarkably crass of me ..wouldnt it ?

[P.K.]

My comments about people of different races is simply true. To deny it is like ignoring the fact you may have big ears, or ginger hair, or a particularly unpleasant expression. It's just another physical attribute. Although it took a lot my Japanese colleagues eventually had to admit that to them I smelt quite bad, but no worse than any other European which was a relief.

Firstly you are confusing cultural influences with racial ones

Secondly you’re changing an objective difference into a subjective opinion on that difference.

Thirdly you seem to think that if something is genetic your prejudices are fine.

I think you are wrong on every count.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Firstly I am not confusing cultural differences with racial ones. How a culture evolves has nothing whatever to do with how I view the race of the people concerned. BUT I am not blind to the reality. The culture in places such as Greece and Turkey around anal sex has aids getting a very firm grip - two races that actually abhor one another. No, confusion about race and culture is not something I have.

Secondly I am not confusing an objective difference with a subjective opinion. That's like claiming a negroid does not have a flat nose when a negroid chracteristic is - a flat nose. I smell a certain way. Someone who smells differently from me can detect it. Purely objective - not subjective.

Thirdly I have NEVER claimed that a genetic difference (presumably between individuals of the same race or your "point" makes no sense) reinforces a "prejudice" I have. I have no prejudices between races. I make no distinction between colour or creed, just sexual orientation for personal reasons.

 

You are right that Asian people find westerners have a strange smell, but this has NOTHING to do with our genetics and everything to do with our cultures.  Westerners smell of milk and cheese and the smells and farts of the bacteria which eat it in our guts and yep various asian friends of mine have commented on it.  BUT this is NOT a genetic issue, but cultural.  If we didn't eat cheese and milk we wouldn't smell to east asians, or if they ate more of the same they wouldn't notice because they'd have that smell too!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's the point I had already made (probably badly) in an attempt to show that there are certain differences that should be recognised as exactly that. Is diet cultural? I would suggest it is more likely to be geographical and reflect the food source.

 

Are you really saying its OK to be disgusted by ginger hair or discriminate against people with large ears or noses; to allow genetics to set our social mores and rules?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No.

 

You say its fine for homosexuals to marry, fine and good. Just say that and please don't try to justify your lack of tolerance and unwillingness to accept we live in a diverse society.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, I don't say that at all. If a couple of poofters living together want the same rights as a married couple in law then fine, but they don't need to go through a sham ceremony to get them. I posed the question why are these rediculous farcical pantomime marriages required at all? So far no bleeding-heart lentil-eating jobsworths have come up with an answer.

 

Just becuase you, myself and others don't necessarily understand or condone peoples views like P.K for example, doesn't make them backward, or stuck in their ways.  I see P.K said he had his reasons, he doesn't have to say what they are to us - but they are his reasons.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

10/10.

[joeyconcrete]

Thankfully Tynwald have half a brain between them it seems.

 

Section 38 Law could be axed

 

A proposal is being introduced which will allow the teaching and discussion of homosexuality in Manx schools however the IOM newspapers refers to it as 'promotion' of homosexuality just to provoke people P.K.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

In the UK, my understanding is Section 28 was the "promotion" of homosexuality in schools. It shouldn't be promoted in schools. And I'm not quite sure what you can teach about homosexuality that doesn't apply to male/female relationships. Lessons about `relationships` would be a better move, whether they be sexual/platonic/same-sex, whatever - it doesnt matter. Its a bond between two people. What goes on after that is their business. I do believe the emphasis should remain on 'traditional' sexual education though. Education about `relationships` can only go so far, then they're not equal which is where the emphasis should switch.

 

The big research area in Science is trying to identify whether being "gay" can be taught or influenced, or whether you are born gay. The latter seems likely, " sexual orientation is determined by a combination of genetics and hormonal activity in the womb" as described in the book "born gay". That may stop people thinking their son will be taught how to be gay. Some psychologists do say that it can be influenced (I guess in the same way married men with kids "come out" in later life, gay people may declare themselves straight). .

[P.K.]

I would doubt if being "gay" is the result of genetics as the chances of someone "gay" passing on their dna to the next generation is somewhat limited. Unless, of course, it is a genetic disorder. Discuss....

[Mr. Sausages]

Because gay people have never had children. Never. Ever.