Drag Acts in the Guild - official

[Gladys]

24 minutes ago, wrighty said:

Is Mrs Brown (as in Mrs Brown’s Boys) a drag act? Because that’s definitely shit. I think it’s probably one of the definitions of shit in Roger Mexico’s dictionary. 

I agree it is proper shit, yet popular.  

[Hoops]

14 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Tbh, being 'a lady', drag doesn't bother me, but neither do I  think it is some kind of societal comment on being a women. 

It actually characatures being a woman, in a cartoon way. I definitely don't feel "appropriated".  So, I won't be looking at drag artists to promote or defend women.  I wonder if the parody, which it really is and there is no denying that, is more to do with the performers' own perception of their relationships?  

Absolutely not offended by drag, but let's not place too much importance, eh? 

I read John's initial reply to my wife, and typed what she said, minus expletives!

Drag is maybe burlesque, quite possibly inappropriate in this day and age, and really not for the guild.

Minstrels caricature being black, in a cartoon way.

The parody is about the performers and how they feel, with scant regard for women, I would suggest. Not surprising, I suppose, given the zeitgeist of the self-imposed cultural elite.

Edited January 28, 2023 by Hoops

[Gladys]

1 minute ago, Hoops said:

I read John's initial reply to my wife, and typed what she said, minus expletives!

Drag is maybe burlesque, quite possibly inappropriate in this day and age, and really not for the guild, I would suggest.

Minstrels caricature being black, in a cartoon way.

The parody is about the performers and how they feel, with scant regard for women, I would suggest. Not surprising, I suppose, given the zeitgeist of the self-imposed cultural elite.

Probably going to get roasting,  but it only matters if you let it matter.  As a woman  I do not feel threatened by drag.  Why would I,  I am a 100% woman? 

The performers are irrelevant, really, because they are not trying to be real women just parodies.  You either find it funny or entertaining, or not. Women should not feel threatened, if the do why?

[John Wright]

8 hours ago, wrighty said:

Is Mrs Brown (as in Mrs Brown’s Boys) a drag act? Because that’s definitely shit. I think it’s probably one of the definitions of shit in Roger Mexico’s dictionary. 

I don’t find it funny. Mrs B is played en travestie or in drag. But there’s no humour. 

Best drag act I ever saw was Rex Jameson, aka Mrs Shufflewick. Think it was in Royal Vauxhall Tavern or Black Cap in Camden around 1977/8. I was at Uni.

Foulmouthed in the extreme, a Roy Chubby Brown in a frock. But very funny, and by todays standards politically incorrect in the extreme.

Rex had been a big name in the 50’s & 60’s. Had his own TV and Radio shows. But his drinking and outbursts ruined that for him.

Always in a scarf, a wrap around and tie pinny house coat, Norah Batty stockings and shoes, and a ciggie between his lips. A char lady, with gin in hand, sat in a corner who suddenly launched into rambling regalings of past sexual conquests, which were all innuendo.

At one stage in the 50’s he’d taken Danny La Rue under his wing.

[mollag]

Dare I mention Arthur Lucan and Kitty? not drag but very much a female impersonator in a pantomime style, very popular in their time. 

[Hoops]

8 hours ago, Gladys said:

Probably going to get roasting,  but it only matters if you let it matter.  As a woman  I do not feel threatened by drag.  Why would I,  I am a 100% woman? 

The performers are irrelevant, really, because they are not trying to be real women just parodies.  You either find it funny or entertaining, or not. Women should not feel threatened, if the do why?

Glady, It's not about being threatened (Although some drag artists scare the shit out of me), it's about patriarchy, misogyny and ridicule. You are fine with it, others aren't, particularly as nothing exists without reference to the outside world, and drag will be seen in the context of the current erosion of women's rights by men. 

I think my wife's point is, if we have to have drag, it's vaudeville, it's adult entertainment and not for the guild.

John talks about drag being subversive, something I've not seen, especially given it's men parodying women, and not the other way round? I see an increasingly sexualised performance - maybe drag has lost that edge since it became mainstream? It often happens.

 

 

[TheTeapot]

8 hours ago, Gladys said:

 

The performers are irrelevant, really, because they are not trying to be real women just parodies.  You either find it funny or entertaining, or not. Women should not feel threatened, if the do why?

I'm in the not bit. I don't really get it. Went to a show years ago, just thought it was weird, but most of the audience were having a great time (and split about 50/50 so I assume women weren't feeling threatened!) so just figure its a part of the entertainment world that's not for me. Like Eastenders, or U2.

[Dirty Buggane]

Or the House Of Key's

[mollag]

17 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

I'm in the not bit. I don't really get it. Went to a show years ago, just thought it was weird, but most of the audience were having a great time (and split about 50/50 so I assume women weren't feeling threatened!) so just figure its a part of the entertainment world that's not for me. Like Eastenders, or U2.

That's me in a nutshell, I am not amused or entertained by the same, not offended, I just don't get it, each to their own.

By the by, this Sean Bean drama explained a lot to me, well worth a looky loo.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2188993/

[Gladys]

1 hour ago, Hoops said:

Glady, It's not about being threatened (Although some drag artists scare the shit out of me), it's about patriarchy, misogyny and ridicule. You are fine with it, others aren't, particularly as nothing exists without reference to the outside world, and drag will be seen in the context of the current erosion of women's rights by men. 

I think my wife's point is, if we have to have drag, it's vaudeville, it's adult entertainment and not for the guild.

John talks about drag being subversive, something I've not seen, especially given it's men parodying women, and not the other way round? I see an increasingly sexualised performance - maybe drag has lost that edge since it became mainstream? It often happens.

 

 

Current erosion of women's rights, are you sure? 

I think of drag as being the embodiment of a woman's 'right' to display and not give a flying whatever.  They are generally very strong characters and you do wonder if it is almost a homage to a type of person that the drag artist secretly admires and aspires to be themselves - brash, self-confident and demanding of attention, hence the excessive adornment and decoration.  

[John Wright]

8 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Current erosion of women's rights, are you sure? 

I think of drag as being the embodiment of a woman's 'right' to display and not give a flying whatever.  They are generally very strong characters and you do wonder if it is almost a homage to a type of person that the drag artist secretly admires and aspires to be themselves - brash, self-confident and demanding of attention, hence the excessive adornment and decoration.  

Perhaps there’s been a divergence between the drag of music hall, variety, panto and working class pubs and the strand that’s lypsync and OTT costumes and bitchiness embodied by RuPaul’s drag race.

I don’t take to the drag race type drag, but I’m happy for it to exist for those who do.

As I said much further up, I wonder what the point scoring standards and break down/allocation will be. 

[Max Power]

2 hours ago, mollag said:

Dare I mention Arthur Lucan and Kitty? not drag but very much a female impersonator in a pantomime style, very popular in their time. 

For fear of being cancelled by the Alphabet Spaghetti community, I must point out that my grandad was a thespian who counted Arthur Lucan amongst his mates. I have his autograph somewhere. 

[offshoremanxman]

1 minute ago, Max Power said:

For fear of being cancelled by the Alphabet Spaghetti community.

It’s all this inclusivity bollocks. I have no interest in the Guild, and would have even less interest in it if is included watching a 15 year old in drag as part of the “entertainment”. But the only reason they’re doing it is for inclusivity brownie points and little else. Is your 80 year old Aunty Doris who has been going to hear the singing at the Guild for the last 50 years really going to stay for the drag act? It will just alienate a lot of their traditional audience and encourage a few extra noisy virtue signalers to pop in for an hour and swap a few pictures on Instagram about what a laugh it all is. 

[HeliX]

11 hours ago, Hoops said:

I read John's initial reply to my wife, and typed what she said, minus expletives!

Drag is maybe burlesque, quite possibly inappropriate in this day and age, and really not for the guild.

Minstrels caricature being black, in a cartoon way.

The parody is about the performers and how they feel, with scant regard for women, I would suggest. Not surprising, I suppose, given the zeitgeist of the self-imposed cultural elite.

Every single person I know who likes Ru Paul's Drag Race is a woman. Are you sure your wife's reaction isn't caused by your views and prejudices that you've no doubt detailed to her at length repeatedly?

[Gladys]

42 minutes ago, John Wright said:

Perhaps there’s been a divergence between the drag of music hall, variety, panto and working class pubs and the strand that’s lypsync and OTT costumes and bitchiness embodied by RuPaul’s drag race.

I don’t take to the drag race type drag, but I’m happy for it to exist for those who do.

As I said much further up, I wonder what the point scoring standards and break down/allocation will be. 

No, I'm not a fan of Drag Race but, you say, it has an audience.  One thing it probably does is show how committed to the art drag artists are. 

Funny thing is that drag has moved more towards the glamour than the parodying of middle aged and older women that was the preserve of the likes of Les Dawson and Dick Emery.