Up to 30 megawatts of renewable energy by 2026

[asitis]

2 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

 

Whilst I understand that we have gotten used to Government stuffing up capital projects, surely we should be able to trust that they will get this right.

1. Both Solar and Wind Turbines are available off the shelf and they are a well established thing

2. The design of footings and fixings for both are, again off the Shelf and well established

3. We can run cables

4. There won't be voids to worry about

5. We can build tracks

What could possibly go wrong?

The wrong kind of tame expert perhaps ?

[The Bastard]

1 hour ago, Banker said:

Shetland built all those with massive subsidies & grants from EU/Uk which aren’t available here

Interesting ! Could you point me at a source that states that ?

[Happier diner]

2 hours ago, Banker said:

Shetland built all those with massive subsidies & grants from EU/Uk which aren’t available here

 

9 minutes ago, The Bastard said:

Interesting ! Could you point me at a source that states that ?

I would have thought that they used all the money they get in rates from the Sullom Voe terminal. Something that has made the islands very wealthy

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-27138927

 

[P.K.]

Wind power is unreliable.

Tidal power is 100% guaranteed.

As you have to have alternative sources of supply in case of insufficient wind you might as well use tidal where you can plan to the n'th degree when alternative supply will be needed. They should have invested in it years ago. 

A lost opportunity imho.

[The Bastard]

7 minutes ago, P.K. said:

Wind power is unreliable.

Tidal power is 100% guaranteed.

As you have to have alternative sources of supply in case of insufficient wind you might as well use tidal where you can plan to the n'th degree when alternative supply will be needed. They should have invested in it years ago. 

A lost opportunity imho.

You're totally right that we should have been looking at this for years, but the technology has taken time to mature, and is still maturing.

You've also made the classic mistake of assuming that on a cloudy day with no wind, that a scheme based on wind or solar mean that the lights will go off. That isn't how well-planned energy schemes work, large or small. When the wind blows or the sun shines, you store the energy - pump the water into a lake to be used to run turbines when needed, charge up the battery array, fill your tank with hot water. 

Aside from that, tidal isn't much different from wind. Tides are variable, there are times of peak and slack water. Like any source of energy, it needs to be stored or supplemented. When the tide is slack, the wind may be blowing, or the sun may be shining, the energy-from-waste, or the geothermal station can pick up the difference.

[The Phantom]

11 minutes ago, The Bastard said:

You're totally right that we should have been looking at this for years, but the technology has taken time to mature, and is still maturing.

You've also made the classic mistake of assuming that on a cloudy day with no wind, that a scheme based on wind or solar mean that the lights will go off. That isn't how well-planned energy schemes work, large or small. When the wind blows or the sun shines, you store the energy - pump the water into a lake to be used to run turbines when needed, charge up the battery array, fill your tank with hot water. 

Aside from that, tidal isn't much different from wind. Tides are variable, there are times of peak and slack water. Like any source of energy, it needs to be stored or supplemented. When the tide is slack, the wind may be blowing, or the sun may be shining, the energy-from-waste, or the geothermal station can pick up the difference.

The costs for tidal would be significantly more than solar or wind, it's still relatively unproven (only a handful of commercially viable plants worldwide) and we don't really have any suitable sites.   It would be better to stick with proven tech. 

When you say tidal, what are you thinking of specifically?  The big rotors basically like an underwater windmill or barrages/lagoons?  I don't believe we have anywhere that would be suitable for either.  The rotors would get destroyed by storms and the only 'lagoon' we have is Derbyhaven, which probably wouldn't be big enough. 

Edited February 16, 2023 by The Phantom

[P.K.]

14 minutes ago, The Bastard said:

You're totally right that we should have been looking at this for years, but the technology has taken time to mature, and is still maturing.

You've also made the classic mistake of assuming that on a cloudy day with no wind, that a scheme based on wind or solar mean that the lights will go off. That isn't how well-planned energy schemes work, large or small. When the wind blows or the sun shines, you store the energy - pump the water into a lake to be used to run turbines when needed, charge up the battery array, fill your tank with hot water. 

Aside from that, tidal isn't much different from wind. Tides are variable, there are times of peak and slack water. Like any source of energy, it needs to be stored or supplemented. When the tide is slack, the wind may be blowing, or the sun may be shining, the energy-from-waste, or the geothermal station can pick up the difference.

No I haven't made a classic mistake.

You may have though 😁

On 4/8/2014 at 11:46 AM, P.K. said:

An array of these:

http://www.pulsetidal.com/pulse-tidal-plans-commercial-demonstration-at-lynmouth.html,

Backed up by pumped HEP for slack water would do the job very nicely. Plus it would put the IOM in the lead for this emerging technology - winner!

What all these advantages mean, of course, is that it will never happen.....

 

[P.K.]

5 minutes ago, The Phantom said:

The costs for tidal would be significantly more than solar or wind, it's still relatively unproven (only a handful of commercially viable plants worldwide) and we don't really have any suitable sites.   It would be better to stick with proven tech. 

When you say tidal, what are you thinking of specifically?  The big rotors basically like an underwater windmill or barrages/lagoons?  I don't believe we have anywhere that would be suitable for either.  The rotors would get destroyed by storms and the only 'lagoon' we have is Derbyhaven, which probably wouldn't be big enough. 

I seem to recall when this was first mooted that, surprisingly, the Sound and around the Calf are unsuitable.

The Point of Ayre is OK though.

A lot more money went into wind power research because, as we in the IT world used to describe systems with lots of flashing lights, the windmills have IPV - Instantly Perceived Value...

[The Bastard]

5 minutes ago, P.K. said:

No I haven't made a classic mistake.

You may have though 😁

So what you're saying is that a tidal scheme (backed up by HEP for slack water) is no different to a wind scheme (backed up by pumped water for less-windy times). They're essentially the same thing, a variable natural power source that needs backup during slack wind/tide.

I agree with The Phantom on tidal - people often advocate for tidal without assessing the size of the scheme that would be required to deliver economically-viable power. It's not just a case of bunging a mini-turbine into the sound and powering the island from it. It would probably struggle to power Cregneash. 

[WTF]

55 minutes ago, P.K. said:

 

Tidal power is 100% guaranteed.

As you have to have alternative sources of supply in case of insufficient wind you might as well use tidal where you can plan to the n'th degree when alternative supply will be needed. They should have invested in it years ago. 

A lost opportunity imho.

tidal flow is 100% guaranteed, but things working in a salt water environment to capture energy aren't. 

[The Bastard]

Tidal is still very much in its infancy, and it would be a mistake to jump in whilst it's an unproven and expensive technology. As Happier Diner points out, you can buy wind power pretty much off-the-shelf and there are many successful solar and wind farms worldwide. Tidal - not so much. 

[Happier diner]

1 hour ago, P.K. said:

Wind power is unreliable.

Tidal power is 100% guaranteed.

As you have to have alternative sources of supply in case of insufficient wind you might as well use tidal where you can plan to the n'th degree when alternative supply will be needed. They should have invested in it years ago. 

A lost opportunity imho.

There is only very very limited opportunity for Tidal power on the IOM. You need to be able to exploit a natural feature like Strangford Lock. As the @The Phantom and @The Bastardcorrectly say the technology is just not there at the moment and underwater turbines are not suitable for our waters

The Sound would be the only spot and it would generate very little power so is not feasible

[Happier diner]

53 minutes ago, WTF said:

tidal flow is 100% guaranteed, but things working in a salt water environment to capture energy aren't. 

Tidal flow is guaranteed. But how do you capture it?

[hissingsid]

Pie in the sky idea sounds great in theory but in practice with this Government at the helm……extremely dicey.    Where are they getting the money from ?    Where are they going to position all the turbines ?   Who are the experts that are going to advise them ?    A friend had a solar panel put in a small bungalow about ten years ago and she reckons it has paid for itself and some, it keeps her leccy bills down so it is a good idea on a personal level but the idea of producing enough power to sustain the nation is a very different proposition using just solar and wind.   It sounds good but the question is will electricity be more or less expensive because that really is the question we have to ask.    Has electricity become cheaper in countries that have gone down this road ?   e.g.   Germany, Denmark etc.    The devil is in the detail a lot of homework has to be done before rushing in to this plan.

[The Phantom]

8 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

There is only very very limited opportunity for Tidal power on the IOM. You need to be able to exploit a natural feature like Strangford Lock. As the @The Phantom and @The Bastardcorrectly say the technology is just not there at the moment and underwater turbines are not suitable for our waters

The Sound would be the only spot and it would generate very little power so is not feasible

Assuming turbines would be proposed rather than a barrier, I can see why people might think the Sound would be a good spot.  I've dived, kayaked, paddleboard and boated through there many times and it's too shallow, only a few meters deep maximum at low tide.  A sensible sized turbine would need at least double this to have enough room to actually spin.  The northern side of Kitterland is only about 10 meters wide a low tide (you can't even safely get a shallow draught speed boat through there at low tide) and southern channel is maybe 50 meters wide at low tide.  So even if you had the depth, you could only install a couple of turbines.  

It's a relatively busy shipping route for pleasure vessels too that saves you having to go round Calf which can get particularly sketchy. 

It would probably chop up all the seals too.