Non-Believer Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 3 hours ago, Happier diner said: Whilst I understand that we have gotten used to Government stuffing up capital projects, surely we should be able to trust that they will get this right. 1. Both Solar and Wind Turbines are available off the shelf and they are a well established thing 2. The design of footings and fixings for both are, again off the Shelf and well established 3. We can run cables 4. There won't be voids to worry about 5. We can build tracks What could possibly go wrong? When was the last time that our Govt decreed that an off-the-shelf design would be suitable for Island needs? Oh no, it will have to be something bespoke, something unique, something new, in its developmental infancy (think airport radar for instance) with all the expense and de-bugging hassle and inconvenience that goes along with it. Cabbage locomotive-like. Manxman gearbox-like. Chewing gum remover-like. Although doubtless, future customers are very appreciative of the expensive development work that the IoM taxpayer has inputted. The record is not good. And certainly not where this sort of sum of money is involved. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bastard Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 11 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: When was the last time that our Govt decreed that an off-the-shelf design would be suitable for Island needs? Oh no, it will have to be something bespoke, something unique, something new, in its developmental infancy (think airport radar for instance) with all the expense and de-bugging hassle and inconvenience that goes along with it. Cabbage locomotive-like. Manxman gearbox-like. Chewing gum remover-like. Although doubtless, future customers are very appreciative of the expensive development work that the IoM taxpayer has inputted. The record is not good. And certainly not where this sort of sum of money is involved. That's a very depressed viewpoint. Cabbage was unusual because of the unusual gauge of the IOM railway. Manxman gearbox has broken during sea trials, a good time for things to break. It's covered by the manufacturers. All large ships are custom, you can't exactly buy them at DEALZ. Chewing gum remover was Douglas Corporation, not an IOMG capital project. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtleish Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 Manx solar energy must have had the nod a while back, been advertising for installer's and admin staff.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 5 minutes ago, Turtleish said: Manx solar energy must have had the nod a while back, been advertising for installer's and admin staff.. Or just completely independent from the proposed Govt contracts, they're receiving more business from residents directly. My neighbor had his new panels installed a few weeks ago after waiting about 6 months for fitting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 1 hour ago, Non-Believer said: When was the last time that our Govt decreed that an off-the-shelf design would be suitable for Island needs? Oh no, it will have to be something bespoke, something unique, something new, in its developmental infancy (think airport radar for instance) with all the expense and de-bugging hassle and inconvenience that goes along with it. Cabbage locomotive-like. Manxman gearbox-like. Chewing gum remover-like. The latest design looks pretty standard to me 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 Tidal? Use the Groudle Bore! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentience Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 22 hours ago, The Phantom said: Interesting. Laxey wheel is an overshot wheel and 22m in diameter. Sorry Phantom that's not correct. Laxey Wheel is classed as a 'Back Pitch' or 'Back Pitch Stop' type of mechanism. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 39 minutes ago, Sentience said: Sorry Phantom that's not correct. Laxey Wheel is classed as a 'Back Pitch' or 'Back Pitch Stop' type of mechanism. I see. I was just going off the overhead feed in those diagrams in the link. Hadn't considered the direction of rotation. Does it affect efficiency? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 4 hours ago, WTF said: tidal flow is 100% guaranteed, but things working in a salt water environment to capture energy aren't. Amazing we have submarines really... Serious research into low cost tidal power dried up (sorry) about a decade ago. Maintenance is not really an issue actually as the ones I've seen were attached to a tower. You just raise it out of the water. But if you're putting a tower on the sea bed then you might as well put a windymill on top.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 31 minutes ago, P.K. said: Amazing we have submarines really... Serious research into low cost tidal power dried up (sorry) about a decade ago. Maintenance is not really an issue actually as the ones I've seen were attached to a tower. You just raise it out of the water. But if you're putting a tower on the sea bed then you might as well put a windymill on top.... Here is an interesting article I genuinely think though, that because we have no sheltered inlets where tide can run up an down that its a no starter for us. These things would suffer a terrible battering in our open sea and they are no good if there is wave action disturbing the tidal flow. https://earth.org/what-is-tidal-energy/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 39 minutes ago, The Phantom said: I see. I was just going off the overhead feed in those diagrams in the link. Hadn't considered the direction of rotation. Does it affect efficiency? I was thinking a bit more about this, though I had been smoking. The power in the wheel is not so much the wheel, but the massive beam it drives. There much be a decent amount of unharnessed power in that now it isn't running a pump. I'd put a prize up. Design something for this WIN CASH. Heritage people would freak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallMeCurious Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 8 minutes ago, Happier diner said: Here is an interesting article I genuinely think though, that because we have no sheltered inlets where tide can run up an down that its a no starter for us. These things would suffer a terrible battering in our open sea and they are no good if there is wave action disturbing the tidal flow. https://earth.org/what-is-tidal-energy/ The whole point of tidal is the reliability compared with wind/solar. You only have to look at the Point of Ayre tidal rips to see the potential and it's not that far of shore and well out of shipping lanes. https://www.powerengineeringint.com/news/orkney-tidal-power-a-hotbed-on-the-seabed/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 1 minute ago, TheTeapot said: I was thinking a bit more about this, though I had been smoking. The power in the wheel is not so much the wheel, but the massive beam it drives. There much be a decent amount of unharnessed power in that now it isn't running a pump. I'd put a prize up. Design something for this WIN CASH. Heritage people would freak. That's not true unfortunately. The power in the beam is simply inertia/momentum The maximum available power is only proportional to the head of water (the pressure) and the flow of water. Water wheels are less efficient than turbines, in part because they are they are open (but also for other reasons). Turbines can be fed through a pipe which can withstand pressure and this allows a high pressure jet of water to be directed at the runner. I'm not saying that there is no potential for power in Laxey wheel. There is. But its not much. If you do some googling you can find calculators where you put the head (metres of water) and the flow and it will give you the max available power. Sorry for being a smart arse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 3 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: I was thinking a bit more about this, though I had been smoking. The power in the wheel is not so much the wheel, but the massive beam it drives. There much be a decent amount of unharnessed power in that now it isn't running a pump. I'd put a prize up. Design something for this WIN CASH. Heritage people would freak. You fucking genius. See, this is exactly why we smoke. Yeah you could either attach a genny to the hub or use that beam on the viaduct behind, however that does just reciprocate rather than turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 4 minutes ago, CallMeCurious said: The whole point of tidal is the reliability compared with wind/solar. You only have to look at the Point of Ayre tidal rips to see the potential and it's not that far of shore and well out of shipping lanes. https://www.powerengineeringint.com/news/orkney-tidal-power-a-hotbed-on-the-seabed/ Yes that's true. but you can't harness it. First storm up there and the turbines would be destroyed. You need a massive number of turbines to make it work otherwise the water just goes around the turbine. You need to form a chain of turbines in a line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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