thommo2010 Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 10 hours ago, HeliX said: When it's deemed unreasonable, as it obviously will be, will you still be desperate to defend it? Most definitely. They assaulted police officers because they were unhappy their mother was searched. I'm more concerned about the well being of the police officers who were assaulted than these animals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 12 minutes ago, thommo2010 said: Most definitely. They assaulted police officers because they were unhappy their mother was searched. I'm more concerned about the well being of the police officers who were assaulted than these animals. Maybe next time if you ask nicely he'll put his boot in your mouth rather than a non-threat's head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 12 hours ago, HeliX said: Maybe next time if you ask nicely he'll put his boot in your mouth rather than a non-threat's head. I'm not picking on you HeliX as I agree that the officer appears to have gone too far, but what would you have done in the same situation? i.e. an airport security issue, a lot of shouting, raising the temperature of the situation, serious assault on three colleagues, general uncooperation and a need to act quickly. I know that I would have been a bit concerned for my own safety and a bit iirational, as would the police in many other countries. Once the heat has been turned up, adrenaline drives your reactions. It's not an excuse, but I think years of kid gloves policing has allowed people to think they can treat the police however they like, and get away with it. I've always thought that there will be a return to a more disciplinarian society, caused by years of being too soft on crime. It's difficult but it will be impossible to recruit the sort of people needed to ensure our safety if they are in danger of prosecution every time they get carried away. We'll be left with people ill equipped for the task when things get tough. I'm not in favour of brutality in policing, but we walk a fine line. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 1 minute ago, Max Power said: I'm not picking on you HeliX as I agree that the officer appears to have gone too far, but what would you have done in the same situation? i.e. an airport security issue, a lot of shouting, raising the temperature of the situation, serious assault on three colleagues, general uncooperation and a need to act quickly. I know that I would have been a bit concerned for my own safety and a bit iirational, as would the police in many other countries. Once the heat has been turned up, adrenaline drives your reactions. It's not an excuse, but I think years of kid gloves policing has allowed people to think they can treat the police however they like, and get away with it. I've always thought that there will be a return to a more disciplinarian society, caused by years of being too soft on crime. It's difficult but it will be impossible to recruit the sort of people needed to ensure our safety if they are in danger of prosecution every time they get carried away. We'll be left with people ill equipped for the task when things get tough. I'm not in favour of brutality in policing, but we walk a fine line. Not booted a bloke lying on his front in the face when the situation was already controlled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 Just now, HeliX said: Not booted a bloke lying on his front in the face when the situation was already controlled. I agree, but could you guarantee that you wouldn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Max Power said: I agree, but could you guarantee that you wouldn't? Seems a strange question, I'm not suggesting that it was impossible for him to boot someone in the face, he clearly did. I'm saying he shouldn't have, it's wrong, should be found as such, and appropriate outcomes should arise. Edited July 27 by HeliX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thommo2010 Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 2 hours ago, Max Power said: I'm not picking on you HeliX as I agree that the officer appears to have gone too far, but what would you have done in the same situation? i.e. an airport security issue, a lot of shouting, raising the temperature of the situation, serious assault on three colleagues, general uncooperation and a need to act quickly. I know that I would have been a bit concerned for my own safety and a bit iirational, as would the police in many other countries. Once the heat has been turned up, adrenaline drives your reactions. It's not an excuse, but I think years of kid gloves policing has allowed people to think they can treat the police however they like, and get away with it. I've always thought that there will be a return to a more disciplinarian society, caused by years of being too soft on crime. It's difficult but it will be impossible to recruit the sort of people needed to ensure our safety if they are in danger of prosecution every time they get carried away. We'll be left with people ill equipped for the task when things get tough. I'm not in favour of brutality in policing, but we walk a fine line. Helix has never been in a situation where he/she/it/them has had to restrain violent animals who ate willing to assault anyone. Obviously he/she/it/them would give them a hug and tell them it's OK we can get this sorted. Again another one on this forum who thinks they know it all when in reality they've been tucked up safe on the Isle of man 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 (edited) 16 hours ago, thommo2010 said: Was he restrained though? Maybe look again @thommo2010 To take any action he would first have to lever himself up. In front of taser-toting buzzed-up police officers clearly looking to do him harm? Would you? One guy sitting with his hands on his head got the treatment as well. The expressions "out of control" and "totally unprofessional" fits this scenario only too well. There is no way the officer doing the kicking should ever be issued with lethal force and the authority to use it on his own judgement because he decided that the guy on the ground needed a kick in the face. At a time when trust in the police, especially by ethnic minorities, is at an all time low. Little wonder a criminal investigation has been started... Edited July 27 by P.K. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 (edited) 59 minutes ago, thommo2010 said: Helix has never been in a situation where he/she/it/them has had to restrain violent animals who ate willing to assault anyone. Obviously he/she/it/them would give them a hug and tell them it's OK we can get this sorted. Again another one on this forum who thinks they know it all when in reality they've been tucked up safe on the Isle of man Luckily I think there are a lot of people around these days who have never experienced proper violence, I'm afraid that I'm not one of them. I suppose in some cases, violence breeds violence, and there were a lot of violent people around when I was younger. Perhaps we have been able to contain it better these days, but when things get out of hand, we don't have police and others who are able to deal with it? As for the officer and the kick in the head, I've seen much worse from bouncers at the Lido in the 80s, and a pair of coppers in Killarney dragging a ruffian out of a pub!! Edited July 27 by Max Power 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 7 minutes ago, Max Power said: Luckily I think there are a lot of people around these days who have never experienced proper violence, I'm afraid that I'm not one of them. I suppose in some cases, violence breeds violence, and there were a lot of violent people around when I was younger. Perhaps we have been able to contain it better these days, but when things get out of hand, we don't have police and others who are able to deal with it? As for the officer and the kick in the head, I've seen much worse from bouncers at the Lido Would you like to go back to those days...? A bouncer has been jailed for killing a student doctor with a single punch when a fight broke out where he worked. Nojan Kafi, 36, hit Emmanuel Simon, 33, on the head, causing him to fall to the ground and lose consciousness at Dubai Café in Rusholme in January 2020. Greater Manchester Police said Mr Simon, who was acting as a peacemaker, lost his life in a "moment of sheer brutal recklessness by Kafi". He was jailed for four years and eights months at Manchester Crown Court. Kafi, of no fixed address, had previously been charged with his murder but the court accepted his guilty plea to manslaughter. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-60878786 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 Just now, P.K. said: Would you like to go back to those days...? A bouncer has been jailed for killing a student doctor with a single punch when a fight broke out where he worked. Nojan Kafi, 36, hit Emmanuel Simon, 33, on the head, causing him to fall to the ground and lose consciousness at Dubai Café in Rusholme in January 2020. Greater Manchester Police said Mr Simon, who was acting as a peacemaker, lost his life in a "moment of sheer brutal recklessness by Kafi". He was jailed for four years and eights months at Manchester Crown Court. Kafi, of no fixed address, had previously been charged with his murder but the court accepted his guilty plea to manslaughter. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-60878786 I'm not suggesting that we should, but it does create a problem when things kick off and we don't have people willing to confront the problem and not stand by filming it, thinking that they are doing everything possible as someone is beaten to a pulp! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 1 hour ago, thommo2010 said: Helix has never been in a situation where he/she/it/them has had to restrain violent animals who ate willing to assault anyone. Obviously he/she/it/them would give them a hug and tell them it's OK we can get this sorted. Again another one on this forum who thinks they know it all when in reality they've been tucked up safe on the Isle of man You haven't a clue. But despite that fact, I'd still argue against you being subjected to unnecessary state violence, no matter what you'd done wrong. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 2 minutes ago, Max Power said: I'm not suggesting that we should, but it does create a problem when things kick off and we don't have people willing to confront the problem and not stand by filming it, thinking that they are doing everything possible as someone is beaten to a pulp! You're imagining problems that don't exist. There's no reduction in the number of people willing to fight for the wellbeing of others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thommo2010 Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 So the cctv from Manchester Airport has been released. Wow doesn't quite show the 'victims' in a favourable light. Again well done to the officers involved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thommo2010 Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 No doubt HeliX will still be defending the scum animals https://youtu.be/eUJ7RQ3bgiA?si=A14C3r1_4-AVS1Du Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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