Andy Onchan Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 1 hour ago, 2112 said: The NPM reports the DOI has been fined £18000 having been in breach of H&S laws as a result of an electric tram derailment. Don’t worry folks, Minister Thomas will be hitting social media to defend his department. Perhaps he may care to pay the fine out of his salary? Fine the taxpayer, and the person committing the offence walks away, with their pensions intact. I wonder what the mitigation was for not handing down the max fine of £20K?? And shouldn't that be for each offence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 33 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said: I wonder what the mitigation was for not handing down the max fine of £20K?? And shouldn't that be for each offence? A fine surely acts as a financial incentive to not do something wrong. This only really works if it's your money. If it's not and no one is going to get bollocked (which appears to be the case here) it's a completely pointless exercise for one Govt Agency to fine another Govt Agency, other than to waste a whole lot of time and effort, when they could hopefully be doing something productive with their time. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 46 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said: Maintenance or lack of. Remember, DOI (and by extension some of their constituent organisations) don't 'do' maintenance. "Savings".... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallMeCurious Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 4 hours ago, 2112 said: The NPM reports the DOI has been fined £18000 having been in breach of H&S laws as a result of an electric tram derailment. Don’t worry folks, Minister Thomas will be hitting social media to defend his department. Perhaps he may care to pay the fine out of his salary? Fine the taxpayer, and the person committing the offence walks away, with their pensions intact. And gets another opportunity to try it with a tram full next time. Maybe MR Thomas ought to look at the tram driving license criteria and make 'that fairer' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-isle-of-man-65067092 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallMeCurious Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 1 hour ago, The Phantom said: A fine surely acts as a financial incentive to not do something wrong. This only really works if it's your money. If it's not and no one is going to get bollocked (which appears to be the case here) it's a completely pointless exercise for one Govt Agency to fine another Govt Agency, other than to waste a whole lot of time and effort, when they could hopefully be doing something productive with their time. They'll be covered anyway by the 25% rise in driving license fees too. So they won't even lose it out fo their budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2112 Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 2 hours ago, Andy Onchan said: I wonder what the mitigation was for not handing down the max fine of £20K?? And shouldn't that be for each offence? Perhaps any individuals at fault, either through lack of maintenance or record keeping, should be penalised. Nobody wants to take responsibility, neither staff, management and certainly Minister Thomas doesn’t want to know. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 1 hour ago, The Phantom said: A fine surely acts as a financial incentive to not do something wrong. This only really works if it's your money. If it's not and no one is going to get bollocked (which appears to be the case here) it's a completely pointless exercise for one Govt Agency to fine another Govt Agency, other than to waste a whole lot of time and effort, when they could hopefully be doing something productive with their time. Absolutely agree. In an ideal world both Longtail & Black should have been brought in front of Tynwald to make a public apology and have their pensions withdrawn. We could have been looking at multiple deaths with that runaway tram on the mountain. It's quite staggering to think that if there were deaths those who were in charge could have literally gotten away with murder. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallMeCurious Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 6 minutes ago, 2112 said: Perhaps any individuals at fault, either through lack of maintenance or record keeping, should be penalised. Nobody wants to take responsibility, neither staff, management and certainly Minister Thomas doesn’t want to know. Think the phrase is "Duck and Cover...then start throwing shit" applies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 7 minutes ago, 2112 said: Perhaps any individuals at fault, either through lack of maintenance or record keeping, should be penalised. Nobody wants to take responsibility, neither staff, management and certainly Minister Thomas doesn’t want to know. See above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paswt Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 17 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said: Absolutely agree. In an ideal world both Longtail & Black should have been brought in front of Tynwald to make a public apology and have their pensions withdrawn. We could have been looking at multiple deaths with that runaway tram on the mountain. It's quite staggering to think that if there were deaths those who were in charge could have literally gotten away with murder. Section 37 of the H&S at Work Act 1974 states " where an offence under any of the relevant statutory provisions committed by a body corporate is proved to have been committed with the consent or connivance of or to have been attributable to any neglect on the part of any director, manager, secretary other similar officer of the body corporate or a person who was purporting to act in any such capacity, he ,as well as the body corporate shall be guilty of that offence and shall be liable to be proceeded against and punished accordingly" Given the above I would be interested to learn why Mr Longworth was not prosecuted. Similarly perhaps no action will be taken against the CoC and the Motorsport team in the event of yet another fatal incident at "Casey's" on the mountain ( 5 "offs" ,2 fatals) by the H&S inspectorate. I have correspondence confirming that the CoC deems air fencing unnecessary and would hope that in the event of another fatality he should be prosecuted under H&S A W Act and/or charged with manslaughter but expect that the IOM mantra of "lessons have been learned" ,will be trotted out which they demonstrably haven't. just saying 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blade Runner Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 If you have friends or family then tell them NEVER to go on that mountain railway. It is fundamentally unsafe due to the "emergency brake" that passengers sometimes have to apply themselves....See above for details and the attempt to keep that secret. Then even, the NORMAL BRAKES , NOT EVEN THE EMERGENCY ONES, rely on the electric motors for slowing down the trams, ergo, when the tram does not have contact with the electric line for many reasons the braking "System" does not work. It is only a mater of time until there is a multi fatality on that railway due to trying to keep it "Heritage" 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Thomas Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 3 hours ago, 2112 said: Perhaps any individuals at fault, either through lack of maintenance or record keeping, should be penalised. Nobody wants to take responsibility, neither staff, management and certainly Minister Thomas doesn’t want to know. I do want to know and I think I do know. Please send me any evidence and information about the legal arguments in this case that you think I might not know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Thomas Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 23 hours ago, Dirty Buggane said: Chris Thomas never knows when to stop talking, why use ten words when you can use several hundred and still manage to say nothing of any consequence. Makes no difference its all shite and drivel no matter what the subject. How verbose. Just "tosser" sometimes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passing Time Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 16 minutes ago, Chris Thomas said: How verbose. Just "tosser" sometimes. enough about yourself though... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0bserver Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 2 hours ago, Blade Runner said: If you have friends or family then tell them NEVER to go on that mountain railway. It is fundamentally unsafe due to the "emergency brake" that passengers sometimes have to apply themselves....See above for details and the attempt to keep that secret. Then even, the NORMAL BRAKES , NOT EVEN THE EMERGENCY ONES, rely on the electric motors for slowing down the trams, ergo, when the tram does not have contact with the electric line for many reasons the braking "System" does not work. It is only a mater of time until there is a multi fatality on that railway due to trying to keep it "Heritage" Same on the Steam, Electric and horse trams. Their safety management systems are almost non-existent. There will be a fatality soon. The TT brigade would say "they've been saying that since [insert year here]" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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